Is it worth-it to sacrifice prestige for better advisement and caring professors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Generally, universities of lower caliber advise their students better. Also, professors at lesser universities reach out to their students more and more want their students to be successful.

Well, this would appear to be a false premise based on mine at two different ivies and my work partners' kids at various universities.
Mine and their ivy friends are in varied areas: prelaw, premed, pre-phD. Professors and grad students gladly meet with undergrads for lunch or coffee and share their wisdom. Professors take undergrads to conferences, and offer to connect them to professors they know at other universities for summer work, and follow through to make calls and emails on behalf of students. Pre-law advising has contacts all over the globe for internships and research, they do interview workshops, customized review and planning of the list, personal statement honing. Premed provides GPA and MCAT ranges from the college that are competitive for certain tiers of med schools and help candidates have reach and match schools. Every undergrad who wants science research gets it, and most is paid.Shadowing is easily available with established programs(med school on or near campus for both). The advising is far more personalized than any colleagues kids with the exception of the kid who goes to Williams and also gets impressive advising. Other schools are not T20 or top LACs, and most are publics.
TLDR "lesser" ranked universities do not advise better than higher ranked.

[Anonymous]

I'm a WM alum. About 25 years after I graduated, I was back on campus when one of my children went there for a summer camp. It was in the same building where I spent the majority of my time. I was looking around and noticed that my old advisor was still there. I went to say hi. Not only did he still remember me, he pulled out all his old grade books to show me my grades. I talked to him for about an hour. Many great memories from those years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I second the comment on W&M - totally different (read:better) experience than UVA in terms of the close knit relationships that are fostered and encouraged between students and faculty. At UVA the majority of kids will never have a close relationship with a prof - at W&M it’s the norm - this is an indisputable fact

You aren't really sacrificing much prestige there though. Sacrificing prestige would be turning down UVA for Mary Washington

excellent point - but even for peer schools like UVA and W&M, it’s critical to understand that differences in professor engagement can be massive

[Anonymous]

It depends on your kid and how independent and focused they are.

I was first gen, and neither my parents or I had the slightest idea what we were doing (not immigrants, just poorer white people) and going to a smaller school where I had more intense advising and greater faculty contact was wonderful for me. I went to a "prestige" university for grad school, and I was ready then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have a kid who thinks they know more than any professor and that lectures in college are a waste of time because, really what does that PhD have to say about it anyway, then go for prestige. Prestige schools are sadly full of such students.

If you have a kid who wants to learn, pay attention to who is doing the teaching and make your choice that way.

you have clearly never been in a prestigious university nor have a child at one. I have met dozens as mine have gone through T10s and they are fun, intelligent beings who love learning, and idolize many of their profs.

[Anonymous]

If Larlo gets into Harvard you are a fool to send Larlo to Bowdoin to get a cuddlier advisor. Unless Larlo needs cuddling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to W&M which is considered lower prestige on the national stage. The relationships I developed there propelled my career. I still talk to many of my professors 15+ years out -- they helped me get my first job, go to any ivy grad school, etc. I have friends in more prestigious colleges that struggled in the job hunt and had no relationship with their professors or the TAs that taught them.

Obviously YMMV but I think advisement and the quality of professors is a HUGE factor in success

Everyone who knows W&M in detail and has experienced ivies recognizes that the former is basically an ivy as far as smaller yet very challenging classes, outstanding caring professors and opportunities for the taking from which all undergrads benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to W&M which is considered lower prestige on the national stage. The relationships I developed there propelled my career. I still talk to many of my professors 15+ years out -- they helped me get my first job, go to any ivy grad school, etc. I have friends in more prestigious colleges that struggled in the job hunt and had no relationship with their professors or the TAs that taught them.

Obviously YMMV but I think advisement and the quality of professors is a HUGE factor in success

My kid picked W&M over UVA for this reason. He is a shy guy and will benefit from the close relationship with advisors and professors (nothing against UVA which is more prestigious and a great match for some - with his personality he just might have had a harder time sinking or swimming there).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally, universities of lower caliber advise their students better. Also, professors at lesser universities reach out to their students more and more want their students to be successful.

Also the grapes in the dining halls of higher caliber universities are sour anyway.

[Anonymous]

A lot of lower ranked schools rely heavily on adjunct professors. They are often well meaning, but have to cobble together 2 or 3 jobs to earn enough money to live. They also spend a fair amount of time doing things to increase their odds of getting a tenure track job. They might not be around when your kid needs a reference a couple of years from now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to W&M which is considered lower prestige on the national stage. The relationships I developed there propelled my career. I still talk to many of my professors 15+ years out -- they helped me get my first job, go to any ivy grad school, etc. I have friends in more prestigious colleges that struggled in the job hunt and had no relationship with their professors or the TAs that taught them.

Obviously YMMV but I think advisement and the quality of professors is a HUGE factor in success

My kid picked W&M over UVA for this reason. He is a shy guy and will benefit from the close relationship with advisors and professors (nothing against UVA which is more prestigious and a great match for some - with his personality he just might have had a harder time sinking or swimming there).

Mine is headed to an Ivy, but was planning to pick WM over UVA before getting the Ivy admit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think smaller size is going to be the factor that determines level of faculty involvement and advising, as opposed to low prestige. You're best off at Cal Tech or the WASP schools, which are both small and prestigious. Plenty of big state schools have lower prestige and crud advising.

What are the WASP schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally, universities of lower caliber advise their students better. Also, professors at lesser universities reach out to their students more and more want their students to be successful.

When I think of quality advising and caring professors, UCF is the first thing that springs to mind. 124 in US News, but each one of those 70k kids is known and valued

Ha! I know a kid there. If you really believe this I have a bridge to sell you.

It's obviously sarcasm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally, universities of lower caliber advise their students better. Also, professors at lesser universities reach out to their students more and more want their students to be successful.

Well, this would appear to be a false premise based on mine at two different ivies and my work partners' kids at various universities.
Mine and their ivy friends are in varied areas: prelaw, premed, pre-phD. Professors and grad students gladly meet with undergrads for lunch or coffee and share their wisdom. Professors take undergrads to conferences, and offer to connect them to professors they know at other universities for summer work, and follow through to make calls and emails on behalf of students. Pre-law advising has contacts all over the globe for internships and research, they do interview workshops, customized review and planning of the list, personal statement honing. Premed provides GPA and MCAT ranges from the college that are competitive for certain tiers of med schools and help candidates have reach and match schools. Every undergrad who wants science research gets it, and most is paid.Shadowing is easily available with established programs(med school on or near campus for both). The advising is far more personalized than any colleagues kids with the exception of the kid who goes to Williams and also gets impressive advising. Other schools are not T20 or top LACs, and most are publics.
TLDR "lesser" ranked universities do not advise better than higher ranked.

Which Ivies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of lower ranked schools rely heavily on adjunct professors. They are often well meaning, but have to cobble together 2 or 3 jobs to earn enough money to live. They also spend a fair amount of time doing things to increase their odds of getting a tenure track job. They might not be around when your kid needs a reference a couple of years from now.

You have to go REALLY deep in the rankings before this is true. Only schools that top kids would never consider have this issue.