Equal access to dual language programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are near (but not IB to) a dual language school but have absolutely no chance of getting in by lottery. It is a shame that DCPS offers these programs to just the people who live in a certain geographic area. Dual language programs should be equally open to all (subject to balancing for english and foreign-language dominant, and sibling preference).

I agree with this. I find it really inequitable.

It's how the lottery based school system in DC works. There are seats at a dual language school if you want them, just not the school you want. I completely agree there should be a citywide dual language school (or full immersion like in MCPS), like Capitol Hill Montessori or Military Road ELC, but you can't make all neighborhood dual language schools lottery based because they're still neighborhood schools first.

There are lots of ES in our area. DCPS could easily divert students from one school into others and create an all-lottery immersion program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are near (but not IB to) a dual language school but have absolutely no chance of getting in by lottery. It is a shame that DCPS offers these programs to just the people who live in a certain geographic area. Dual language programs should be equally open to all (subject to balancing for english and foreign-language dominant, and sibling preference).

It's not offered only to people who live in a certain geographic area... there are lottery spots.

I think it's good that DC offers some in-bound spots for families that don't want to play the lottery. There's always going to be someone unhappy with how the lottery works, but I think DC does a good job of balancing the options.

How many lottery spots does Bancroft or Oyster Adam’s have? Unless you are Spanish dominant you are not getting into these schools out of boundary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are near (but not IB to) a dual language school but have absolutely no chance of getting in by lottery. It is a shame that DCPS offers these programs to just the people who live in a certain geographic area. Dual language programs should be equally open to all (subject to balancing for english and foreign-language dominant, and sibling preference).

I agree with this. I find it really inequitable.

It's how the lottery based school system in DC works. There are seats at a dual language school if you want them, just not the school you want. I completely agree there should be a citywide dual language school (or full immersion like in MCPS), like Capitol Hill Montessori or Military Road ELC, but you can't make all neighborhood dual language schools lottery based because they're still neighborhood schools first.

There are lots of ES in our area. DCPS could easily divert students from one school into others and create an all-lottery immersion program.

What grade are you looking for? There are usually K and up seats at Powell, Bruce Monroe, Cleveland, Tyler. Just not at O-A and Bancroft. Is it that you want a pre-K seat or only that you want a seat at a school that feeds to JR?

[Anonymous]

The problem with creating more DL programs is the need to hire more certified bilingual teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what the appetite is for city wide DL DCPS run schools that operate like Charter schools as opposed to expanding charter DL options that provide no IB preference. Like should the focus be on DCPS to do something new like create an Oyster-Adams model immersion that is city wide or to expand the DL offerings at schools like LAMB, DCB, and Stokes. For what's it's worth, it seems like DC as a whole has invested a lot more into DL and creating access to DL than neighboring jurisdictions.

I think part of OA’s success is because it’s a neighborhood school, and a self-selected group of people committed to DL.

Many of the IB students at OA are in families that moved IB to avoid the lottery and have native Spanish speakers in their home. Or have families that prioritize Spanish and send their kids to bilingual preschools and have a Spanish-speaking nanny or au pair.

I think more neighborhood schools that offer DL would be better than a city-wide option. And if there were more of these schools, there could more lottery options for those not IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what the appetite is for city wide DL DCPS run schools that operate like Charter schools as opposed to expanding charter DL options that provide no IB preference. Like should the focus be on DCPS to do something new like create an Oyster-Adams model immersion that is city wide or to expand the DL offerings at schools like LAMB, DCB, and Stokes. For what's it's worth, it seems like DC as a whole has invested a lot more into DL and creating access to DL than neighboring jurisdictions.

I think part of OA’s success is because it’s a neighborhood school, and a self-selected group of people committed to DL.

Many of the IB students at OA are in families that moved IB to avoid the lottery and have native Spanish speakers in their home. Or have families that prioritize Spanish and send their kids to bilingual preschools and have a Spanish-speaking nanny or au pair.

I think more neighborhood schools that offer DL would be better than a city-wide option. And if there were more of these schools, there could more lottery options for those not IB.

Parent of an Oyster and Adams grad. OA was a big part of why we moved to the neighborhood, as it was for many of DS’s classmates. I agree that it was great.

At the time, our 2 BR condo was $750K. Zillow now thinks it’s worth $1.1M not counting a new kitchen, new bathrooms, and a total re-do of the back yard (attached to our unit).

I’m not sure that being able to pay $1.1M for a house is the best way to decide who gets to got to Adams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what the appetite is for city wide DL DCPS run schools that operate like Charter schools as opposed to expanding charter DL options that provide no IB preference. Like should the focus be on DCPS to do something new like create an Oyster-Adams model immersion that is city wide or to expand the DL offerings at schools like LAMB, DCB, and Stokes. For what's it's worth, it seems like DC as a whole has invested a lot more into DL and creating access to DL than neighboring jurisdictions.

I think part of OA’s success is because it’s a neighborhood school, and a self-selected group of people committed to DL.

Many of the IB students at OA are in families that moved IB to avoid the lottery and have native Spanish speakers in their home. Or have families that prioritize Spanish and send their kids to bilingual preschools and have a Spanish-speaking nanny or au pair.

I think more neighborhood schools that offer DL would be better than a city-wide option. And if there were more of these schools, there could more lottery options for those not IB.

Parent of an Oyster and Adams grad. OA was a big part of why we moved to the neighborhood, as it was for many of DS’s classmates. I agree that it was great.

At the time, our 2 BR condo was $750K. Zillow now thinks it’s worth $1.1M not counting a new kitchen, new bathrooms, and a total re-do of the back yard (attached to our unit).

I’m not sure that being able to pay $1.1M for a house is the best way to decide who gets to got to Adams.

You completely missed my point… that we should have more options for neighborhood schools that are DL so that the same thing you did (move to a neighborhood for the DL school) is available to more people. It shouldn’t be just for people who can afford one or two neighborhoods. I think OA is a successful school because it’s a neighborhood school, and that can be replicated over and over. Trying to replicate OA by just looking at teaching models isn’t going to be as successful.

Also I’m a current OA parent and many families are not living in $1 million condos… there are a lot of renting families who chose to rent IB for OA instead of elsewhere because of the school. We should be creating that same opportunity in other neighborhoods so families have more options.

OA works because it’s a neighborhood school AND a DL school. DCPS should work towards more options of that model instead of DL charter schools.

[Anonymous]

Oyster Adams doesn’t “work” it’s simply higher income than other dual language school communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oyster Adams doesn’t “work” it’s simply higher income than other dual language school communities.

+1. What separates Oyster Adams from Bancroft? From Powell or Marie Reed? Cleveland or Tyler? Being a neighborhood school + DL is not the magic. There are already seven other DL elementary schools in DCPS that operate more like a neighborhood school that teaches in Spanish, versus a dual language school that people choose (by moving IB or lotterying) for the Spanish. OA is unique because not only is it in a very high income neighborhood, but it also attracts high income Spanish dominant families through the lottery. That means they can accelerate and push the language instruction much more than at any other school that can't afford for their students to miss half of the math or reading instruction. It also helps that they are the only school that goes pre-K through 8th and has the only high performing immersion middle school program in DCPS. OA is unique and likely the only way to come close to replicating it would be through a city-wide lottery school that is full immersion (so has a level of self selection), goes through eighth, then feeds into JR and/or MacArthur (in the future).

[Anonymous]

That seems to speak to what would make any school "successful" in DCPS ie feed into JR. It seems like DL is abundant yet scarce and a bit all over the place. Is there any group or entity working on thinking through DL across both Charter and DCPS? I've got two not yet school age kids and would be interested in engaging and learning more. Are there any DL high schools or is that not really a thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That seems to speak to what would make any school "successful" in DCPS ie feed into JR. It seems like DL is abundant yet scarce and a bit all over the place. Is there any group or entity working on thinking through DL across both Charter and DCPS? I've got two not yet school age kids and would be interested in engaging and learning more. Are there any DL high schools or is that not really a thing?

The charter immersion schools attract higher SES families in general and also higher SES spanish educated families who are fluent in English, not majority ESL immigrants.

And the schools above feed into DCI which is doing well and a IB middle and high school. There are no DL high schools but if you want advance languages past AP, IB programs are the way to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That seems to speak to what would make any school "successful" in DCPS ie feed into JR. It seems like DL is abundant yet scarce and a bit all over the place. Is there any group or entity working on thinking through DL across both Charter and DCPS? I've got two not yet school age kids and would be interested in engaging and learning more. Are there any DL high schools or is that not really a thing?

Honestly it sounds like the thing you are describing (city-wide lottery access with a high school path) already exists in the MV/DCB/LAMB/Stokes --> DCI context. No neighborhood boundaries, a path through high school, and (except maybe for PK3/PK4) enough seats available.

If what you really want is a seat at OA, that's a different answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are near (but not IB to) a dual language school but have absolutely no chance of getting in by lottery. It is a shame that DCPS offers these programs to just the people who live in a certain geographic area. Dual language programs should be equally open to all (subject to balancing for english and foreign-language dominant, and sibling preference).

I agree with this. I find it really inequitable.

It's how the lottery based school system in DC works. There are seats at a dual language school if you want them, just not the school you want. I completely agree there should be a citywide dual language school (or full immersion like in MCPS), like Capitol Hill Montessori or Military Road ELC, but you can't make all neighborhood dual language schools lottery based because they're still neighborhood schools first.

There are lots of ES in our area. DCPS could easily divert students from one school into others and create an all-lottery immersion program.

What grade are you looking for? There are usually K and up seats at Powell, Bruce Monroe, Cleveland, Tyler. Just not at O-A and Bancroft. Is it that you want a pre-K seat or only that you want a seat at a school that feeds to JR?

I don't think that's really true at Tyler, if I'm reading the data right. The tableau data shows that there have been just 0-2 lottery seats for English-dominant DL since SY2020-21. And it looks like initial matches went to siblings (not sure about subsequent offers). Looks like maybe a handful of offers go out in first (though it is listed as having no lottery spots). This is effectively not a program that's accessible for (English-dominant) people OOB. Not sure how that changes now that the whole school is DL, but it seems unlikely they will want/need more English-dominant students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what the appetite is for city wide DL DCPS run schools that operate like Charter schools as opposed to expanding charter DL options that provide no IB preference. Like should the focus be on DCPS to do something new like create an Oyster-Adams model immersion that is city wide or to expand the DL offerings at schools like LAMB, DCB, and Stokes. For what's it's worth, it seems like DC as a whole has invested a lot more into DL and creating access to DL than neighboring jurisdictions.

I think part of OA’s success is because it’s a neighborhood school, and a self-selected group of people committed to DL.

Many of the IB students at OA are in families that moved IB to avoid the lottery and have native Spanish speakers in their home. Or have families that prioritize Spanish and send their kids to bilingual preschools and have a Spanish-speaking nanny or au pair.

I think more neighborhood schools that offer DL would be better than a city-wide option. And if there were more of these schools, there could more lottery options for those not IB.

Parent of an Oyster and Adams grad. OA was a big part of why we moved to the neighborhood, as it was for many of DS’s classmates. I agree that it was great.

At the time, our 2 BR condo was $750K. Zillow now thinks it’s worth $1.1M not counting a new kitchen, new bathrooms, and a total re-do of the back yard (attached to our unit).

I’m not sure that being able to pay $1.1M for a house is the best way to decide who gets to got to Adams.

You completely missed my point… that we should have more options for neighborhood schools that are DL so that the same thing you did (move to a neighborhood for the DL school) is available to more people. It shouldn’t be just for people who can afford one or two neighborhoods. I think OA is a successful school because it’s a neighborhood school, and that can be replicated over and over. Trying to replicate OA by just looking at teaching models isn’t going to be as successful.

Also I’m a current OA parent and many families are not living in $1 million condos… there are a lot of renting families who chose to rent IB for OA instead of elsewhere because of the school. We should be creating that same opportunity in other neighborhoods so families have more options.

OA works because it’s a neighborhood school AND a DL school. DCPS should work towards more options of that model instead of DL charter schools.

NP and I think this model is not really better than a city wide DL school. Someone shouldn’t be shut out of a neighborhood school because they don’t want Spanish immersion. Everyone in the city should have equal access.

[Anonymous]

Will OA have preference for MacArthur?