Spouse criminal or civil liability for Alzheimer's patient

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for your responses.

Just to give a little more background, our mom refuses to believe it's Alzheimer's vs. dementia. Maybe there is little to no difference practically, but she thinks he has "mild cognitive impairment" despite him having participated in an Alzheimer's clinical trial where the paperwork said "you have been enrolled in this clinical trial for an Alzheimer's drug because you have been diagnosed with Alzheimer's."

He has been involuntarily hospitalized after expressing suicidal thoughts, is constantly falling down stairs (fell last week and broke his tailbone) and tripping, and is raging at her (F you, this is all your fault, you want all my money, etc.). Yet, she claims he is a totally unique person that no one with any training in memory care issues will be able to handle, so that's her excuse for why she won't seek some in-home help. Meanwhile, her blood pressure is sky high and she is one moment away from a breakdown herself.

The good news is that they have plenty of money and a wealth management company to handle it. At this point, it's more about her not wanting to outsource anything to the point of it taking her down.

Fascinating how your post is concerned with whether or not she can be sued (and the money wiped out!) as opposed to the welfare of your father.

I read it as OP thinks the possibility of prosecution should something happen under her mom's watch might convince her mother to do something because she's not listening to family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for your responses.

Just to give a little more background, our mom refuses to believe it's Alzheimer's vs. dementia. Maybe there is little to no difference practically, but she thinks he has "mild cognitive impairment" despite him having participated in an Alzheimer's clinical trial where the paperwork said "you have been enrolled in this clinical trial for an Alzheimer's drug because you have been diagnosed with Alzheimer's."

He has been involuntarily hospitalized after expressing suicidal thoughts, is constantly falling down stairs (fell last week and broke his tailbone) and tripping, and is raging at her (F you, this is all your fault, you want all my money, etc.). Yet, she claims he is a totally unique person that no one with any training in memory care issues will be able to handle, so that's her excuse for why she won't seek some in-home help. Meanwhile, her blood pressure is sky high and she is one moment away from a breakdown herself.

The good news is that they have plenty of money and a wealth management company to handle it. At this point, it's more about her not wanting to outsource anything to the point of it taking her down.

Fascinating how your post is concerned with whether or not she can be sued (and the money wiped out!) as opposed to the welfare of your father.

If you bothered to actually read the OP, you would see she's hoping to use it as a scare tactic for.her mom. Maybe work on your reading skills before commenting something judgy and unhelpful

[Anonymous]

OP again.

It is hard to back off when I'm called at work by a desperate mother because my father raged at the gerontologist and ran out of the office on to a street next to a busy road, with the doctor and my mom in hot pursuit. They couldn't find him. Fortunately I was able to track him via phone and directed the doctor how to find him using landmarks such as oh he's next to a pond on this street. Or she's calling and texting about how he shoved her and she shoved him back.

My sister and I feel completely helpless to help either of them. She only wants thoughts and prayers and repeats what a priest told her- that this is her burden and cross to bear.

She's desperate for him to age in place which we aren't disagreeing with, but if she dies first due to all the stress of this, we will have no choice to put him in a home which is precisely what she doesn't want. And we have told her as such but it's her cross to bear.

I guess I'm focused on semantics because people in our family think she won't get help because she thinks it's dementia and not Alzheimer's. She doesn't see how bad it will get because she saw how my grandmother lived to 102 with dementia and she thinks that's how it will go for him too.

[Anonymous]

Have your Mom book remote appointments with the gerontologist. That is what we did with Mom.

[Anonymous]

I'm shocked that the doctor hasn't intervened given the situation you described.

[Anonymous]

He can't age in place, not like this (maybe if he's heavily medicated). And your mother is not "bearing it". She's misunderstanding what that means.

[Anonymous]

If Mom is being shoved that is more serious than the monies. I would talk to your personal lawyer about options in this case or talk to Mom's lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Can you get Mom to some therapy appointments with you to understand that her staying in a situation in which she is shoved is wrong.

[Anonymous]

You and your siblings need to intervene. This is going to end with someone getting hurt, and it very well may be your mom. I've had many elderly patients who have been injured by their spouse with dementia or Alzheimer's.

[Anonymous]

If Dad is running off Mom needs to stop driving Dad anywhere. Hire a sitter 3-4 hours so Mom can do her errands and appointments.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately it will likely take a crisis to shift things. Because your mother can’t actually care for him alone (nobody can!), he will eventually wander out of the house when she is in the bathroom or taking something out of the oven, or he will have a fall that requires hospitalization and it *may* force the issue. But since she is his decision-maker (and he may have some decision-making capacity too, despite the dementia), there is really nothing you can do. I work in a hospital and there are countless instances where a patient’s spouse decides to take the patient home while their adult kids are adamant that it’s unsafe, mom can’t take care of dad, etc. But there’s nothing we can do - if the patient/their spouse has the capacity to make decisions, the kids have no say.

Oftentimes a patient will fall or physically decline for whatever reason and can no longer walk, and that’s when it’s abundantly clear that the spouse cannot manage the patient’s care at home; only then is a change forced. But with dementia patients who still have mobility/can wander, their options for placement will be more limited. Ideally she would agree to an assisted living with memory care before a crisis occurs, but it sounds like that’s an uphill battle.

What kind of accident could he cause? He’s not driving, is he? If he is, an anonymous call to APS might be warranted (they get these calls frequently and they’ll at least be able to guide you). Also, the Alzheimer’s Association has a 24 hour hotline that addresses these kinds of concerns (as awful as the situation is, they get a billion calls about just the same thing; your family is nowhere near alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you get Mom to some therapy appointments with you to understand that her staying in a situation in which she is shoved is wrong.

Op here. She doesn't want therapy. She doesn't want group support sessions. I think she's drowning and is doing all she can to stay afloat from one day to the next.

I've told her she needs to find a safe room in the house she can go to if he shoves her again. Her response- it was a one time thing. I told her one time turns into another into another and into another resulting in someone hurt and someone in jail. In one ear and out the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Dad is running off Mom needs to stop driving Dad anywhere. Hire a sitter 3-4 hours so Mom can do her errands and appointments.

She won't hire anyone. It's not about the money. She feels he is a very angry raging man (and he is, towards her. She is his trigger) and that no one trained in dementia care could possible help or tolerate him.

Maybe the answer is that we are helpless to help her help him and the tragedy will be that this disease took them both down.

[Anonymous]

OP again. He is not driving, thankfully. She's taken the keys and hidden them from him, but would he drive if given the opportunity? Absolutely. He's very angry that that freedom was taken from him.

I guess when I say accident, my sister and I worry that when he storms out of the house in all weather and time of day, he could trip and fall into a pond with gators and either drown or be attacked. They live in Charleston and there are tons of bodies of water in their neighborhood, all with alligators. Dad can't swim either. When he goes out, he's unable to say street names but I guess by muscle memory has been able to find his way home. That will change in the near future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again.

It is hard to back off when I'm called at work by a desperate mother because my father raged at the gerontologist and ran out of the office on to a street next to a busy road, with the doctor and my mom in hot pursuit. They couldn't find him. Fortunately I was able to track him via phone and directed the doctor how to find him using landmarks such as oh he's next to a pond on this street. Or she's calling and texting about how he shoved her and she shoved him back.

My sister and I feel completely helpless to help either of them. She only wants thoughts and prayers and repeats what a priest told her- that this is her burden and cross to bear.

She's desperate for him to age in place which we aren't disagreeing with, but if she dies first due to all the stress of this, we will have no choice to put him in a home which is precisely what she doesn't want. And we have told her as such but it's her cross to bear.

I guess I'm focused on semantics because people in our family think she won't get help because she thinks it's dementia and not Alzheimer's. She doesn't see how bad it will get because she saw how my grandmother lived to 102 with dementia and she thinks that's how it will go for him too.

I wonder if she's having some cognitive decline too. And maybe doesn't feel up to the challenge of managing staff.

I think you and your sister have to be a brick wall to her. "This is unsafe. You have to hire help." Over and over and over. 100 times. No sympathy, no conversation, no assistance, no nothing. Just those two sentences over and over.