St Johns College Annapolis/Sante Fe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We toured Annapolis. The buildings need repair, repaint and removal of moss growth. It looks shabby in many places.

Sad. One of the oldest colleges in America and rundown. The liberal arts colleges really are dying.

Toured myself. Absolutely beautiful campus and location. Also seems well run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS just finished freshman year in Annapolis. Loved it. Loved the academics and also very involved in rec sports there. Had mostly very good tutors, though some of his friends had more subpar ones. He did far more work than in his private high school, but he said plenty of kids coasted (apparently their grades reflect this).
Santa Fe is apparently more “hippy”? Not sure if that’s right word. Kids don’t wear shoes to class. There is a huge amount of cigarette smoking and vaping and drugs, though you can avoid.
Housing was grim - 3 kids in a double. One roommate a disaster with lots of open food on floor leading to mice infestation
DS had very nice merit aid - we pay less than we did for high school.

We toured a couple years ago - I thought they were renovating dorms and had some Academy kids using dorms while there’s were being renovated. Or something! Are more or better dorms coming on line?

It felt a little cash strapped. Which in this day and age is a concern. But I could be wrong. Annapolis is great as is sante fe

St Johns is definitely a bit cash strapped, but it's not as concerning, because they only really need money for tutors and FA. Other colleges have to worry about a bunch of different majors that cost a ton.

You are wrong; they have a very healthy endowment.

$244 million or thereabouts. Pet student, it works out to about the same as Middlebury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS just finished freshman year in Annapolis. Loved it. Loved the academics and also very involved in rec sports there. Had mostly very good tutors, though some of his friends had more subpar ones. He did far more work than in his private high school, but he said plenty of kids coasted (apparently their grades reflect this).
Santa Fe is apparently more “hippy”? Not sure if that’s right word. Kids don’t wear shoes to class. There is a huge amount of cigarette smoking and vaping and drugs, though you can avoid.
Housing was grim - 3 kids in a double. One roommate a disaster with lots of open food on floor leading to mice infestation
DS had very nice merit aid - we pay less than we did for high school.

We toured a couple years ago - I thought they were renovating dorms and had some Academy kids using dorms while there’s were being renovated. Or something! Are more or better dorms coming on line?

It felt a little cash strapped. Which in this day and age is a concern. But I could be wrong. Annapolis is great as is sante fe

St Johns is definitely a bit cash strapped, but it's not as concerning, because they only really need money for tutors and FA. Other colleges have to worry about a bunch of different majors that cost a ton.

You are wrong; they have a very healthy endowment.

$244 million or thereabouts. Pet student, it works out to about the same as Middlebury.

*Per student

[Anonymous]

They have enough money to fund your summer internship; lots of “higher-ranked” schools don’t do that.

[Anonymous]

they need some AI division of Google or something to come in and say they want these grads.

the two issues with St Johns is super high transfer rate (and the credits don't transfer) and very low starting salary rate. Lower than humanities majors at bigger universities.

I blame those two things on the school. You have to communicate what the program is (so you dont lose kids) and then communicate who the grads are to HR departments. That's two hires St Johns should make - one person to take charge of each of these issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:they need some AI division of Google or something to come in and say they want these grads.

the two issues with St Johns is super high transfer rate (and the credits don't transfer) and very low starting salary rate. Lower than humanities majors at bigger universities.

I blame those two things on the school. You have to communicate what the program is (so you dont lose kids) and then communicate who the grads are to HR departments. That's two hires St Johns should make - one person to take charge of each of these issues

The starting salary problem is I think bigger than a marketing issue. It's a skill problem. Johnnies learn one skill and one skill very well - close reading of texts translated into English. What math and science they take is hamstrung by the Great Books approach - they actually learn classical geometry from reading Euclid, analytic geometry from reading Descartes, and relativity from reading Einstein. That's a problem because most of the important discoveries in math and science are fairly recent (19th century or later) and being updated all the time.

Even setting that aside (many successful liberal arts majors have a weaker math and science background) there are other problems with teaching harder skills. I have already written above that I don't think much of Johnnies' foreign language preparation. But even more importantly for employability with a LA degree, they do all close reading and very little research with secondary sources. That's a problem for research heavy fields that hire LA majors, like consulting and marketing.

Johnnies do make great journalists, ad writers, etc., however. I know one who's a self taught Linux administrator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:they need some AI division of Google or something to come in and say they want these grads.

the two issues with St Johns is super high transfer rate (and the credits don't transfer) and very low starting salary rate. Lower than humanities majors at bigger universities.

I blame those two things on the school. You have to communicate what the program is (so you dont lose kids) and then communicate who the grads are to HR departments. That's two hires St Johns should make - one person to take charge of each of these issues

The starting salary problem is I think bigger than a marketing issue. It's a skill problem. Johnnies learn one skill and one skill very well - close reading of texts translated into English. What math and science they take is hamstrung by the Great Books approach - they actually learn classical geometry from reading Euclid, analytic geometry from reading Descartes, and relativity from reading Einstein. That's a problem because most of the important discoveries in math and science are fairly recent (19th century or later) and being updated all the time.

Even setting that aside (many successful liberal arts majors have a weaker math and science background) there are other problems with teaching harder skills. I have already written above that I don't think much of Johnnies' foreign language preparation. But even more importantly for employability with a LA degree, they do all close reading and very little research with secondary sources. That's a problem for research heavy fields that hire LA majors, like consulting and marketing.

Johnnies do make great journalists, ad writers, etc., however. I know one who's a self taught Linux administrator.

That's one part of their curriculum I never understood: Math and Science. Unlike Literature and the Classics, natural sciences don't run off the "greats" to understand them; in fact, many are impossible to begin without passing the knowledge of many non-greats. You cannot start Gabriele Veneziano "String Theory" without a lot of physics instruction. Same with math and chemistry and biology. Even understanding Einstein's theory of relativity is strung across multiple physics courses from undergrad to grad. They could easily update the math curriculum as all it involves is chalk and a professor (or just leave the kids copies of Topology and Real Analysis if needed), but the sciences require a ton of investment if they actually want to teach a great science curriculum.

[Anonymous]

This Thread: St John's is utterly broke,no money, run down buildings
St John's: https://www.dmsas.com/project/mellon-hall/

[Anonymous]

I had kid was was intrigued and gave it a serious look. The their looked briefly. Both ultimately decided the one size for pts all curriculum wasn’t for them and did not apply. One kid majored in a natural science field. For him, too much 1800s STEM, not enough 2020s. And why was he being required to learn Greek anyway?

I had thought it was a better choice for humanities, but my other kid is an IR/foreign language double. And St. John’s clearly isn’t the place for *modern* and international history, government, geography, politics and economics (ie, the politics on her area of interest or economics involving international trade. Also would miss things like national security, history of her target area of the world since 1980, etc. and they don’t offer her modern language. So this was another kid was was resistant to learning Green (despite having AP Latin in HS), when she really wanted a modern critical language to argument her IR degree.

Both kids are musical (10+ years of an instrument, with private lessons and continued in college, and found their music requirements to be a bit bizarre.

It was an intriguing school, and I would seriously consider for the “right kid”— one who wants a serious grounding in liberal arts, and is pre-PhD in classics or a classics adjacent area. I’m a lawyer and agree that could be another good fit.

But the one size fits all curriculum is a problem if it doesn’t fit you. And for both my kids (who majored in different fields and decided against St. Johns for different reasons), the emphasis on classical authors and essentially being required to major in Great Books was a deal killer— the curriculum did not align with their foals. And they did better taking classes that gave them more modern and practical knowledge and skills was a deal killer.

It seems like a school that would strongly appeal to a somewhat small pool of students.

[Anonymous]

It was intriguing to DS. He then went to admitted student day and decided against it. He said it felt like not one talked or interacted in the classroom (example of a class, facilitated by the tutors). He said the tutors/teachers seemed great, but the prospective students didn't. Sadly, he declined. I was disappointed, but not my choice to make ultimately.

[Anonymous]

I understand that a large portion of undergrads actually transfer out of the Annapolis location when they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was an intriguing school, and I would seriously consider for the “right kid”— one who wants a serious grounding in liberal arts, and is pre-PhD in classics or a classics adjacent area. I’m a lawyer and agree that could be another good fit.

Maybe classics adjacent, but not classics. You need a stronger background than just intermediate Greek to succeed in a classics PhD program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was an intriguing school, and I would seriously consider for the “right kid”— one who wants a serious grounding in liberal arts, and is pre-PhD in classics or a classics adjacent area. I’m a lawyer and agree that could be another good fit.

Maybe classics adjacent, but not classics. You need a stronger background than just intermediate Greek to succeed in a classics PhD program.

I'm not sure what the purpose of a St Johns education is. You are mediocre at a specific type of humanities (that is over studied) and read through the bookshelf of an upper class prep school grad. Yes the classical authors matter, but why seclude yourself from modern theory and practice?

[Anonymous]

the only St Johns grad I know is a federal judge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the only St Johns grad I know is a federal judge.

I talked smack about St John's earlier in the thread, but I bet it's pretty good law school prep.