Increased class sizes for next year

[Anonymous]

If they are going to increase class sizes they need to move to ability grouping in math and ELA. One teacher cannot be expected to serve a heterogenous group of students well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my kid has 5 classes per his grade in ES. I am not sure if class size, but I believe it is 20-24 kids. I hope it will stay at 5 classes next school year.

That is small. Wish that was the number at every school.

If I understand the email we got correctly, 5th grade classes can be up to 31 students. With the new max we are losing a class, so going from numbers like yours to the max for every class. I would not assume your classes will stay small.

I am struggling to understand exactly how this relates to the staff reductions that have been described but it seems they are obviously related (if you increase class size you can get rid of teachers)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We voted people onto the BOE whose priority isn't the students. Many of us have known this for a long time. If these class size increases have't made it abundantly clear to everyone else by now, then we deserve this.

You are leaving the funder, the county council, and the county exec, off the hook for their role in ensuring larger class sizes.

It seems the county council is definitely to blame IN ADDITION to the BOE since the budget is not being funded. I am so frustrated I didn’t realize any ethos was happening until it’s done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They’re officially only adding one student per class so doesn’t sound like a lot.
My neighbor teaches 8th grade Spanish though and says she already got 36 kids in one of her classes. That’s easily 10 kids to many imo.

I agree classes are already too big. So the idea that they are solving budget issues by making them bigger is crazy to me. Where are their priorities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We voted people onto the BOE whose priority isn't the students. Many of us have known this for a long time. If these class size increases have't made it abundantly clear to everyone else by now, then we deserve this.

You are leaving the funder, the county council, and the county exec, off the hook for their role in ensuring larger class sizes.

It seems the county council is definitely to blame IN ADDITION to the BOE since the budget is not being funded. I am so frustrated I didn’t realize any ethos was happening until it’s done.

We've been discussing the possibility of increased class sizes on this forum since the idea was first raised in April.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my kid has 5 classes per his grade in ES. I am not sure if class size, but I believe it is 20-24 kids. I hope it will stay at 5 classes next school year.

That is small. Wish that was the number at every school.

If I understand the email we got correctly, 5th grade classes can be up to 31 students. With the new max we are losing a class, so going from numbers like yours to the max for every class. I would not assume your classes will stay small.

I am struggling to understand exactly how this relates to the staff reductions that have been described but it seems they are obviously related (if you increase class size you can get rid of teachers)

If you have a maximum class size set, then the moment you hit that max in enrollment you have to add another class and redistribute the students accordingly. So this is _probably_ about raising the allowable maximum by 1 across the board. That would in turn result in fewer 'splits' like I just described and allow there to be fewer teachers overall. On this model, some schools could see the impact on the ground and others might not, but there would be overall savings at the district level. I cannot guarantee that this is how it is working (have not researched it), but it would be one way to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they are going to increase class sizes they need to move to ability grouping in math and ELA. One teacher cannot be expected to serve a heterogenous group of students well.

+1

They should adopt flexible ability grouping (not tracking) as the more effective teaching strategy, regardless of class size. By definition, in a mixed-level class, some percentage of the teacher’s attention and classroom time will he devoted to teaching other students. In a homogeneous class, all the instruction can be focused on the level the child needs.

While smaller classes are obviously preferable to larger classes, if I had to choose between smaller heterogeneous classes and larger homogeneous classes, I think I’d prefer the larger homogeneous classes. In fact, I’d even be okay if the higher performing classes were even larger to allow smaller classes for those students who need the most help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my kid has 5 classes per his grade in ES. I am not sure if class size, but I believe it is 20-24 kids. I hope it will stay at 5 classes next school year.

That is small. Wish that was the number at every school.

If I understand the email we got correctly, 5th grade classes can be up to 31 students. With the new max we are losing a class, so going from numbers like yours to the max for every class. I would not assume your classes will stay small.

I am struggling to understand exactly how this relates to the staff reductions that have been described but it seems they are obviously related (if you increase class size you can get rid of teachers)

If you have a maximum class size set, then the moment you hit that max in enrollment you have to add another class and redistribute the students accordingly. So this is _probably_ about raising the allowable maximum by 1 across the board. That would in turn result in fewer 'splits' like I just described and allow there to be fewer teachers overall. On this model, some schools could see the impact on the ground and others might not, but there would be overall savings at the district level. I cannot guarantee that this is how it is working (have not researched it), but it would be one way to do it.

It works something like that, except that MCPS doesn't really have class size maximums, it has guidelines. So there is always some vagueness about when a new class will need to be added or if classes just stay a bit above the guideline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They’re officially only adding one student per class so doesn’t sound like a lot.
My neighbor teaches 8th grade Spanish though and says she already got 36 kids in one of her classes. That’s easily 10 kids to many imo.

My kids had 33 kids in their kindergarten classes. 3 years apart so not an outlier. 4th grader had 36 kids in math this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my kid has 5 classes per his grade in ES. I am not sure if class size, but I believe it is 20-24 kids. I hope it will stay at 5 classes next school year.

That is small. Wish that was the number at every school.

If I understand the email we got correctly, 5th grade classes can be up to 31 students. With the new max we are losing a class, so going from numbers like yours to the max for every class. I would not assume your classes will stay small.

I am struggling to understand exactly how this relates to the staff reductions that have been described but it seems they are obviously related (if you increase class size you can get rid of teachers)

If you have a maximum class size set, then the moment you hit that max in enrollment you have to add another class and redistribute the students accordingly. So this is _probably_ about raising the allowable maximum by 1 across the board. That would in turn result in fewer 'splits' like I just described and allow there to be fewer teachers overall. On this model, some schools could see the impact on the ground and others might not, but there would be overall savings at the district level. I cannot guarantee that this is how it is working (have not researched it), but it would be one way to do it.

It works something like that, except that MCPS doesn't really have class size maximums, it has guidelines. So there is always some vagueness about when a new class will need to be added or if classes just stay a bit above the guideline.

What are those guidlines currently, if you know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my kid has 5 classes per his grade in ES. I am not sure if class size, but I believe it is 20-24 kids. I hope it will stay at 5 classes next school year.

That is small. Wish that was the number at every school.

If I understand the email we got correctly, 5th grade classes can be up to 31 students. With the new max we are losing a class, so going from numbers like yours to the max for every class. I would not assume your classes will stay small.

I am struggling to understand exactly how this relates to the staff reductions that have been described but it seems they are obviously related (if you increase class size you can get rid of teachers)

If you have a maximum class size set, then the moment you hit that max in enrollment you have to add another class and redistribute the students accordingly. So this is _probably_ about raising the allowable maximum by 1 across the board. That would in turn result in fewer 'splits' like I just described and allow there to be fewer teachers overall. On this model, some schools could see the impact on the ground and others might not, but there would be overall savings at the district level. I cannot guarantee that this is how it is working (have not researched it), but it would be one way to do it.

It works something like that, except that MCPS doesn't really have class size maximums, it has guidelines. So there is always some vagueness about when a new class will need to be added or if classes just stay a bit above the guideline.

What are those guidlines currently, if you know?

In the FY 24 operating budget, they were:

Classroom teacher positions for Grades K–5 are allocated based on enrollment projections to Kindergarten using a class size guideline of 24, to Grades 1–2 using a class size guideline of 25, to Grade 3 using a class size guideline of 26, and to Grades 4-5 using a class size guideline of 28. Additional classroom teacher positions are provided to focus and Title I schools to Grades K–2 using a class size guideline of 18, to Grade 3 using a class size guideline of 24, and to Grades 4-5 using a class size guideline of 26.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my kid has 5 classes per his grade in ES. I am not sure if class size, but I believe it is 20-24 kids. I hope it will stay at 5 classes next school year.

That is small. Wish that was the number at every school.

If I understand the email we got correctly, 5th grade classes can be up to 31 students. With the new max we are losing a class, so going from numbers like yours to the max for every class. I would not assume your classes will stay small.

I am struggling to understand exactly how this relates to the staff reductions that have been described but it seems they are obviously related (if you increase class size you can get rid of teachers)

If you have a maximum class size set, then the moment you hit that max in enrollment you have to add another class and redistribute the students accordingly. So this is _probably_ about raising the allowable maximum by 1 across the board. That would in turn result in fewer 'splits' like I just described and allow there to be fewer teachers overall. On this model, some schools could see the impact on the ground and others might not, but there would be overall savings at the district level. I cannot guarantee that this is how it is working (have not researched it), but it would be one way to do it.

It works something like that, except that MCPS doesn't really have class size maximums, it has guidelines. So there is always some vagueness about when a new class will need to be added or if classes just stay a bit above the guideline.

What are those guidlines currently, if you know?

In the FY 24 operating budget, they were:

Classroom teacher positions for Grades K–5 are allocated based on enrollment projections to Kindergarten using a class size guideline of 24, to Grades 1–2 using a class size guideline of 25, to Grade 3 using a class size guideline of 26, and to Grades 4-5 using a class size guideline of 28. Additional classroom teacher positions are provided to focus and Title I schools to Grades K–2 using a class size guideline of 18, to Grade 3 using a class size guideline of 24, and to Grades 4-5 using a class size guideline of 26.

My understanding is the recent round of cuts is based not on enrollment projections but on actual students enrolled for next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They’re officially only adding one student per class so doesn’t sound like a lot.
My neighbor teaches 8th grade Spanish though and says she already got 36 kids in one of her classes. That’s easily 10 kids to many imo.

My kids had 33 kids in their kindergarten classes. 3 years apart so not an outlier. 4th grader had 36 kids in math this year.

1 teacher or 2? If 1 that’s crazy for early elem. Mine went to
A focus school and only had 14 kids in her K class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They’re officially only adding one student per class so doesn’t sound like a lot.
My neighbor teaches 8th grade Spanish though and says she already got 36 kids in one of her classes. That’s easily 10 kids to many imo.

My kids had 33 kids in their kindergarten classes. 3 years apart so not an outlier. 4th grader had 36 kids in math this year.

1 teacher or 2? If 1 that’s crazy for early elem. Mine went to
A focus school and only had 14 kids in her K class.

That’s the point. Those not in Focus or Title I schools have had 19-25 students with one teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They’re officially only adding one student per class so doesn’t sound like a lot.
My neighbor teaches 8th grade Spanish though and says she already got 36 kids in one of her classes. That’s easily 10 kids to many imo.

My kids had 33 kids in their kindergarten classes. 3 years apart so not an outlier. 4th grader had 36 kids in math this year.

1 teacher or 2? If 1 that’s crazy for early elem. Mine went to
A focus school and only had 14 kids in her K class.

That’s the point. Those not in Focus or Title I schools have had 19-25 students with one teacher.

19-25, yes. But 33?