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[Anonymous]

PP-

That is all well and fine that that is how you read it, but those words carry very different meaning for most other people. The word "thug" and "thuglife" have particular meaning within the African-American community, particularly among the youth. There is definitely a lot of interesting discussions that could take place around how the term and the idea of "thug life" are used within that group. But there is no doubt that the term, especially in the way that the OP used it, is loaded racially.

I don't think every use of the word "thug" is racist. But I think that the way OP described the situation is loaded with racialized terminology that indicates what REALLY bothered her about the situation. And, as someone who has far more experience in AdMo recently, I can say that she is barking up the wrong tree if she really thinks what she described is the major issue facing the area. I have seen it first hand and, while what she describes is part of the problem, it is far from the biggest issue facing the neighborhood. Yet that is what she chose to focus on. Now, maybe that is all she saw, but for whatever reason, she targeted her post at the "thugalicious" folks, which makes me think the color of their skin had a LOT to do with her response to the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a magic decoder right that I can get to learn all the code words? Does it change color?

I'm not really sure what a "decoder right" is, but I'd say that avoiding celebrating your own ignorance is the first step toward understanding the social context of language. Just a thought...

[Anonymous]

Another poster here. Does thug really refer to AA? Aren't violent white supremicists thugs? And aren't street gangs of any race thugs? There was an earlier discussion about how the word ghetto is an offense term because it seems to apply predominantly to AAs, at least here in the US. But there are also other races that live in economically depressed, high crime urban areas. I can see how certain words which were used specifically in reference to certain races are offensive but thugs and ghetto seem like it could apply to any race. So in arguing that they are offensive terms, does that mean you think those words apply to certain races when maybe they don't?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another poster here. Does thug really refer to AA? Aren't violent white supremicists thugs? And aren't street gangs of any race thugs? There was an earlier discussion about how the word ghetto is an offense term because it seems to apply predominantly to AAs, at least here in the US. But there are also other races that live in economically depressed, high crime urban areas. I can see how certain words which were used specifically in reference to certain races are offensive but thugs and ghetto seem like it could apply to any race. So in arguing that they are offensive terms, does that mean you think those words apply to certain races when maybe they don't?

Looking at the classic definition of thug, obviously a person of ANY race could fit the bill. The actions that are traditionally associated with being a "thug" are not unique to African-Americans or any other racial or ethnic group. However, looking at more recent common usage, and the specific way the OP used it (not just "thug" but "thugalicious" and "thuglife"), it is pretty clear that there are racial overtones.

Whenever we talk about language, people want everything to be black and white, clear cut, with no nuance. So when I criticize the OP for her usage, the constant refrain is, "Oh, so you're saying I can never use the word thug?" That is absolutely not what I am saying. Using its derivatives in the way that the OP did and in the context that she did is definitely evidence of some subtle racism. But the word itself can clearly be used in a variety of ways and is not specific to African-Americans.

Likewise for "ghetto". Ghetto can mean a lot of things. It was commonly used during the Holocaust to describe areas where Jews were concentrated and is still used in this way today (such as the Jewish Ghetto in Venice). However, there are also a lot of ways that it can be used negatively... describing a person as "ghetto" is rife with classist and racist signaling and describing an area of town as such can also be offensive, if only because of the negative connotation it carries.

With language, so much is about how it is used and what it is meant to convey.

Now, if OP was really not referring to people of color, or not ONLY to people of color, I will stand corrected and apologize. I would be surprised if this is the case, because it would demonstrate that she is simply ignorant of the meaning of the terms she employed, but maybe that is the case.

[Anonymous]

Thanks. I avoided getting into detailed description of which ethnic group I saw doing what b/cause I'm not an ethnographer and in all seriousness, my concern is what kind of policing, political will and merchant coalition can come together to maintain these neighborhood hotspots as places where people of all races can come together and have a pleasant, safe night out. The debauchery I witnessed, and last weeks metro melee are a perfect storm of 'why bother going there for the great ethnic foods or publife' if the actual wandering of the streets in and out of the venue is harrowing? It makes me really really sad b/cause a hope for our city is this kind of development (isn't the waterfront next?), no one wants it completely sanitized, but going out to a vibrant night district should not feel Gotham city dangerous. I am just interested in what we residents can see by way of future efforts to 'take back the night' as it were.

[Anonymous]

Btw - someone telling my husband 'i oughtta cap your ass' over parking strikes me as both thuggish and a bit outdated. We were almost laughing as we called a police officer over to address the 'irate' lady, but at some level i found that deeply disturbing. Who needs that? Thug is a multivalent word - here I was referring to posturing like you are super tough and have street cred ( as she went through her little routine it was clear her buddies in her vehicle were her audience). It's not my thing to glorify incivility whether you're black or white - to me its thuggish. If you have other good words I'm happy to use them. Barbaric? And I use the term ghetto- my European mom lived in one when she came to America. Cities in the North were ghettoized among many different ethnic groups. Ghetto is a real word. My husband is black btw, amply capable of defending himself, and fairly horrified over someoe feeling it necessary to issue death threats ( it sounds funny - but she was on a roll) over parking. He's not takin me back anytime soon. Was it an off night? Maybe we ran into all the crazies?