"Women judge other women when they are feeling either jealous or smug."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t like women being put into such narrow boxes, 2 emotions, really?

If my MIL goes on a racist tirade and I judge her I am neither smug nor jealous. If I judge a coworker for missing a deadline and delaying my work, I am neither smug nor jealous.

This sounds like another way to make women into an old sexist trope and stereotype. People judge people for all sorts of reasons. Many more than just two.

I agree. I understand where OPs mom is coming from, though, and in the case of judging other people’s e-rings I do think it’s often a response to feeling jealous or smug. There are many other cases where judgement would stem from something different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Judging engagement ring size is very petty on the sliding scale of female pettiness.

When someone has a small stone, I assume they married young or had other priorities.

The larger rings used to be more indicative of something about the finances of the couple, but the advent of lab-grown diamonds makes it impossible to know. So now I just think those larger rings suggest a need to show off. But don't actually convey anything financial about the owner.

My local CVS has some decent-looking large diamond engagement ring knockoffs (odd that they sell them there...isn't it?).

Hmm. There is that smugness OP's mom referenced. I just think those larger rings suggest the wearer thinks gems are pretty and that they enjoy sparkling jewelry.

PP. There are lots of pretty sparkles that cost less than $10-20K. Which is the price point of the real rings in that category. I figured somebody would call me out for my comments but I'm pretty sure this size of ring, like driving a luxury car, is intended to be noticed/assessed by others. The people I know like this, the bride tells the groom what to buy. These are not spontaneously presented rings.

With labs, you can get a pretty large good quality diamond for 2-3k. And, while I have a smaller diamond, I see why someone who loves the look of a big sparkling stone would want to get something bigger, especially now that it’s fairly affordable. There are lots of lovely stones people can purchase, but I’ve not found anything that sparkles and has the durability of a diamond

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably true. I got the up and down eye by another mom today while grocery shopping and felt very insecure.

I thought about DCUM and how my frump was on full display at swim school this morning!

Also, I may have been saying not nice things in my head about light make up, heels and jeans at 8:30 in the morning.

She is the insecure one, that is why she has the need to look at you that way.

I don’t necessarily think this is true. I have hair and makeup done every morning by 8:30 (although no heals!) and look put together. But I’m also not insecure and wish women would be kind to each other no matter what they’re wearing.

You are reacting to the makeup and not the looking up and down.

[Anonymous]

I am going to assume your mom and aunt meant judging on superficial stuff particularly related to status, not racism. With that backdrop, I think your mom is right. Except a smug judging person is insecure. So there is only one category: insecure.

[Anonymous]

Smug means "contentedly confident of one's ability, superiority, or correctness; complacent"
and in that context I have to admit I am smug about certain things. For instance, I am contentedly confident of the superiority of my political beliefs vs those of lots of other people. I would also say I believe those others are less intelligent, not just of me but of about half the country, so that's a bit of a superiority complex.

But I don't just judge other women, I judge people of all genders. As far as being jealous, I am pretty much never jealous of anybody and never have been.

I definitely couldn't care less about anybody's ring and wouldn't even notice details of it.

[Anonymous]

I don't "only judge when I'm jealous or smug." I'm a curious person who pays attention to people. I judge when I'm bored, when I'm feeling creative, when someone intrigued me in some way, when someone has done something to catch my attention, etc.

I actually almost never feel jealous OR smug. I think everyone's got their own goals and own metrics by which they measure themselves and your goals are not my goals and vice versa. So I'm not jealous of you that you're married, for a variety of reasons and y you're not jealous of me for being single, for a different variety of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Judging engagement ring size is very petty on the sliding scale of female pettiness.

When someone has a small stone, I assume they married young or had other priorities.

The larger rings used to be more indicative of something about the finances of the couple, but the advent of lab-grown diamonds makes it impossible to know. So now I just think those larger rings suggest a need to show off. But don't actually convey anything financial about the owner.

My local CVS has some decent-looking large diamond engagement ring knockoffs (odd that they sell them there...isn't it?).

I know unmarried women in certain industries who buy those rings before they travel to conferences etc. in order to avoid being bothered.

An engagement or wedding ring is NOT a deterrent on business travel. They actually attract more men because they are looking for casual sex with others already in a relationship.

Yeah. Travel for work and sit at the bar in a hotel restaurant trying to eat a quiet dinner and gross men desperate for casual fun will come out of the woodwork -- wedding ring or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably true. I got the up and down eye by another mom today while grocery shopping and felt very insecure.

I thought about DCUM and how my frump was on full display at swim school this morning!

Also, I may have been saying not nice things in my head about light make up, heels and jeans at 8:30 in the morning.

Maybe she was looking at you in a totally neutral way but has major RBF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t like women being put into such narrow boxes, 2 emotions, really?

If my MIL goes on a racist tirade and I judge her I am neither smug nor jealous. If I judge a coworker for missing a deadline and delaying my work, I am neither smug nor jealous.

This sounds like another way to make women into an old sexist trope and stereotype. People judge people for all sorts of reasons. Many more than just two.

This.

Even if you limit your judgments to those about appearance, I still don't think it is true. People all have different histories, experiences, religions, cultures, etc. that figure in to how they view the world and how they judge things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only judge the women who have those big, honkin’ rocks on their fingers. Too showy for me.

LOL way to prove the OP... I'm sure you find them too "showy..."

DP. The PP might really find conspicuous consumption to be worthy of judgment and be feeling neither jealous nor smug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Judging engagement ring size is very petty on the sliding scale of female pettiness.

When someone has a small stone, I assume they married young or had other priorities.

The larger rings used to be more indicative of something about the finances of the couple, but the advent of lab-grown diamonds makes it impossible to know. So now I just think those larger rings suggest a need to show off. But don't actually convey anything financial about the owner.

My local CVS has some decent-looking large diamond engagement ring knockoffs (odd that they sell them there...isn't it?).

Hmm. There is that smugness OP's mom referenced. I just think those larger rings suggest the wearer thinks gems are pretty and that they enjoy sparkling jewelry.

PP. There are lots of pretty sparkles that cost less than $10-20K. Which is the price point of the real rings in that category. I figured somebody would call me out for my comments but I'm pretty sure this size of ring, like driving a luxury car, is intended to be noticed/assessed by others. The people I know like this, the bride tells the groom what to buy. These are not spontaneously presented rings.

My ring was about 11k. The diamond isn't huge at all, but it isn't small either -- it has a 1.5 carat center stone. It isn't "intended to be noticed/assessed by others" at all. I like rocks, I always have, my grandfather was a geologist and my first science fair project in early elementary school was about geodes. Diamonds are beautiful to look at, as are rubies, sapphires, amethysts, opals, whatever. Your post? Well -- there is that judgment with smugness OP is asking about...

[Anonymous]

Everybody judges, It’s in our bodies and it was necessary for survival. We look at things every day and have to make a judgment about whether it’s safe, unsafe, healthy…

What we do with those thoughts is a different story. We’ve evolved …. even though we judge every situation and make decisions about those judgments When we don’t use logical reasoning to understand how our judgment might be clouded, and then we are acting less involved or intelligent.

Some people judge because they’re jealous, some people judge, cause they’re unintelligent, some people judge because they’re less evolved.

Reality is most of us judge and make determination about peace based on those judgments and 80% of the time I’m right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Backstory: visiting my mom this week with my kids (DH is working). My aunt is also in town. One of my kids was playing with my wedding/engagement ring. My engagement ring is extremely simple with a tiny stone, wedding ring is just a band. They are very pretty (have this filigreed design I love) but they were also inexpensive. We had absolutely no money when we got married, and I wasn't a big jewelry person anyway.

My aunt asked in a polite way if I ever thought about getting a larger diamond now that we can more easily afford it, especially with lab diamonds now available. I hadn't really thought about it -- my rings are sentimental to me and I think I'm so used to having a small stone that it might feel weird to have a bigger one. My aunt said, "Do you feel like other women judge you for having a smaller stone? That was a thing when I was younger."

And before I could answer, my mom said, "Oh who cares? Women only judge other women when they're feeling jealous or smug, why cater to that."

So I've been thinking about that ever since. Do you think that's true, that women only judge each other when they are feeling jealous or smug? I feel like I could come up with exceptions if I tried but I also think the underlying sentiment is true in a useful way. It also, of course, made me think of DCUM.

So, DCUM, what do you think? Would especially be interested in hearing people assess if it's true when they, themselves, judge other women. I do think it's often true for me, I'm ashamed to admit.

Of course not. Your mom was trying to be kind to you.

Women, and people in general, will be judgy about absolutely anything. Some people like to believe it’s jealousy, and sometimes that may be true, but usually people are just saying “I would never do that, it’s beneath me”.

I think there’s also judgment that stems from insecurity, but again not in most cases. You have the people here on DCUM saying “this is why I kept my name/took his name, stayed home/kept working, had an engagement ring or didn’t” and people get really defensive about those different choices. Where if you were talking to this person at school pick-up they could be one of your best friends, despite the different choices.

[Anonymous]

My 2.5 carat ring was handed down through my spouses family. It was his grandmothers from the 1920’s. I just like it because it’s pretty and I don’t judge others for what they are wearing. Maybe if you’re walking down the street in a snowsuit in July - then I might judge. Otherwise I think people can do what they want.

[Anonymous]

I think your mom was sticking up for you and putting your aunt in her place.

I don't think she was trying to communicate a universal truth.