PG is changing start and dismissal times with less than 6 months notice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

I teach at a PG high school with a 7:45 start time. This would be an amazing change! I wouldn't be surprised to see a pretty dramatic improvement in both grades and absenteeism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

I just read through it and it seems like waivers and walker safety would be a better issue to address. But that would cost money. Whereas changing school times saves the district money.

They arent JUST suggesting changing school times btw. Its talking about increasing bus stop distance from 0.22 to 0.46miles and buses are sometimes 40% empty so use smaller vans for certain routes.

Again, a 7 year old walking 0.5miles on average to a bus stop at 630/645 in the morning is NOT going to end well for the county.

[Anonymous]

We're in AACo and just had the big switch two years ago.
There were some people who were thrilled and some who were distraught. Two years later, it's fine.
Some families were able to get rid of morning care with an earlier elem start time. Other families had to add afternoon care with the earlier dismissal time.
Some activities shifted to the morning slot.
Everything worked out. Is it better? I dunno - depends on who you ask and what you're measuring - but the doomsday scenarios didn't come true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

Ill be honest. My kid is a walker and it is completely unsafe for him to walk on his own. I have to walk with him. Our street has no sidewalks. There are three cars parked at the top of our street- that I have already submitted complaints about- that block visual for cars turning right onto our street. There are ZERO crossing guards. There is a two lane street that people regularly speed on and do not stop for pedestrians. On multiple occasions, we have had people swerve around those stopped. The pedestrian crossing signs are misplaced (i.e. do not line up where the "crossing" is) and do not light up or flash. The street in question does not have stop signs at all directions.
In addition to that crossing, he has to cross three other residential streets.

I didnt even realize I could ask for a waiver!

We have plenty of people in the neighborhood who would walk but its not safe for the kids to do it solo.

I totally understand this!
I just didn't realize how many kids had those waivers. If I'm reading this correctly, one of the recommendations is to revisit the sites of these waivers to see if the hazards still exist and to consolidate those students who still need a waiver to a handful of stops.

I think there are a lot of good recommendations in the audit but making all of those changes at once is going to be a hard sell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

I teach at a PG high school with a 7:45 start time. This would be an amazing change! I wouldn't be surprised to see a pretty dramatic improvement in both grades and absenteeism.

Which shifts absenteeism to elementary school kids based on the research theyve done with schools that start before 745.

I just wish we could have a conversation about no school starting before 8. For all kids. And then find workarounds from there.

[Anonymous]

I agree, 7:30 is too early of a start for ES. My daughter starts at 7:45 (late bell at 8) and already gets out at 1:50, which is early! 1:20 for dismissal is ridiculous and yes, everyone's after care prices will go up. There are also a lot of latchkey ES kids and that is a long afternoon home alone.

The littles who walk or take buses will be up and out in the dark, as pps noted. There's gotta be a better solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

Ill be honest. My kid is a walker and it is completely unsafe for him to walk on his own. I have to walk with him. Our street has no sidewalks. There are three cars parked at the top of our street- that I have already submitted complaints about- that block visual for cars turning right onto our street. There are ZERO crossing guards. There is a two lane street that people regularly speed on and do not stop for pedestrians. On multiple occasions, we have had people swerve around those stopped. The pedestrian crossing signs are misplaced (i.e. do not line up where the "crossing" is) and do not light up or flash. The street in question does not have stop signs at all directions.
In addition to that crossing, he has to cross three other residential streets.

I didnt even realize I could ask for a waiver!

We have plenty of people in the neighborhood who would walk but its not safe for the kids to do it solo.

I totally understand this!
I just didn't realize how many kids had those waivers. If I'm reading this correctly, one of the recommendations is to revisit the sites of these waivers to see if the hazards still exist and to consolidate those students who still need a waiver to a handful of stops.

I think there are a lot of good recommendations in the audit but making all of those changes at once is going to be a hard sell.

Its insane that they havent addressed this first and are considering swtiching times before addressing the waivers and 1/2 empty buses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

I teach at a PG high school with a 7:45 start time. This would be an amazing change! I wouldn't be surprised to see a pretty dramatic improvement in both grades and absenteeism.

I wish they would make HS at 8:30. That would give kids more time for after school jobs, dual enrollment and sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree, 7:30 is too early of a start for ES. My daughter starts at 7:45 (late bell at 8) and already gets out at 1:50, which is early! 1:20 for dismissal is ridiculous and yes, everyone's after care prices will go up. There are also a lot of latchkey ES kids and that is a long afternoon home alone.

The littles who walk or take buses will be up and out in the dark, as pps noted. There's gotta be a better solution.

Yes this is a big issue in my mind with poorer kids. Aftercare is $$$ so a lot of the poorer elementary kids will come home to an empty house. I have noticed that it's only middle class kids and upper middle class in aftercare. Is this because all the poorer kids have SAHMs? Doubtful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

I teach at a PG high school with a 7:45 start time. This would be an amazing change! I wouldn't be surprised to see a pretty dramatic improvement in both grades and absenteeism.

I wish they would make HS at 8:30. That would give kids more time for after school jobs, dual enrollment and sports.

Yes I think all schools should start at 8 or 8:30. Even 9 is too late and before 8 is too early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

I teach at a PG high school with a 7:45 start time. This would be an amazing change! I wouldn't be surprised to see a pretty dramatic improvement in both grades and absenteeism.

Which shifts absenteeism to elementary school kids based on the research theyve done with schools that start before 745.

I just wish we could have a conversation about no school starting before 8. For all kids. And then find workarounds from there.

Interesting. I haven't see that research, but I expect elementary absenteeism would have a different cause. Teens are biologically programmed to be night owls, unlike younger kids, so the cause must have something to do with logistics, family schedules, or something like that. But yes, 7:45 is just too darn early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

I teach at a PG high school with a 7:45 start time. This would be an amazing change! I wouldn't be surprised to see a pretty dramatic improvement in both grades and absenteeism.

Which shifts absenteeism to elementary school kids based on the research theyve done with schools that start before 745.

I just wish we could have a conversation about no school starting before 8. For all kids. And then find workarounds from there.

You need to get serious about the shortage of bus drivers, they have to spread out start times or else there simply aren't enough buses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

I teach at a PG high school with a 7:45 start time. This would be an amazing change! I wouldn't be surprised to see a pretty dramatic improvement in both grades and absenteeism.

Which shifts absenteeism to elementary school kids based on the research theyve done with schools that start before 745.

I just wish we could have a conversation about no school starting before 8. For all kids. And then find workarounds from there.

You need to get serious about the shortage of bus drivers, they have to spread out start times or else there simply aren't enough buses.

Right but the audit posted offered solutions like getting rid of 26%of the riders that are walkers but got waivers. Lengthening stops from 0.22 to 0.46 miles on average. AND using vans since some routes are less than 50% capacity so you don't need such strict license requirements.

Again all better options than making elementary school kids walk or catch a bus before 7am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I just read through the audit and there are a lot of recommendations that make sense. One thing that is crazy is that something like 22% of riders are people who live within the walk zone but have waivers.

Big picture is that they have too many schools that start at 7:45 and too few that start at 8:30 and 9:30. It looks like their solution to that is to move all the high schools away from 7:45 to a 9:30 start. In doing that they need to move the rest of the ES to 7:30 if they want uniform start times.
On paper, it make sense but it practice it is a hard sell.

If you are interested, here is a link to the audit. https://wtop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/more-transportation-audit-1.pdf

I teach at a PG high school with a 7:45 start time. This would be an amazing change! I wouldn't be surprised to see a pretty dramatic improvement in both grades and absenteeism.

Which shifts absenteeism to elementary school kids based on the research theyve done with schools that start before 745.

I just wish we could have a conversation about no school starting before 8. For all kids. And then find workarounds from there.

You need to get serious about the shortage of bus drivers, they have to spread out start times or else there simply aren't enough buses.

Right but the audit posted offered solutions like getting rid of 26%of the riders that are walkers but got waivers. Lengthening stops from 0.22 to 0.46 miles on average. AND using vans since some routes are less than 50% capacity so you don't need such strict license requirements.

Again all better options than making elementary school kids walk or catch a bus before 7am.

I agree. They should pick the low hanging fruit first in SY24-25. If people know that a massive shift in start times in on the table, maybe they wouldn't complain about a little bit longer of a walk to the bus stop.
I think that consolidation of bus routes and an opt out option is going to make a big difference. Our TAG elementary and middle school busses make 5 stops in our neighborhood which could easily be consolidated to 2 along the main road.

[Anonymous]

What PGCPS needs to do (and no one wants to talk about) is eliminate the specialty programs at elementary school level. That eliminates a ton of bussing and the county would have more than enough drivers.