Think additional travel cost factor, could save a couple thousand dollars to have a school closer to where you live. Airline fairs are getting outrageous. |
Thank you for sharing! What specifically made your experiences unpleasant at Princeton? I was under the impression that a STEM student at Princeton will have an unpleasant experience with Humanities more so than with STEM courses. Do you think Princeton's curriculum and environment is more supportive towards Humanities students? Also, as a STEM alum of Princeton will you recommend Princeton to prospective STEM students? |
This right here ^^^ |
NP: I think it’s a little unpleasant for everyone, but probably iStanford is unpleasant in the same way. Classes can be great but the work can be a grind and the bubble can be stifling—lots of type A people competing for the same things. Lots of wheeler-dealer types who suck up oxygen in class. It can be glorious too, especially when spring arrives or you’re in love or having fun with friends. My friends were extremely supportive and great but the school environment was not supportive IME. |
Strong humanities offerings at both schools, it's really more about fit and where they will thrive.
FWIW I have a kid at Stanford who has taken a LOT of humanities courses (philosophy double major). Many of his classes have only 6-12 students enrolled. Deep discussions and lots of critical thinking. Absolutely LOVES his classes. To your point, I do sense he swims against the tide a bit...he is not influenced at all by the courses or majors his peers choose, is very driven by his own curiosities and interests, but thrilled with the abundance of courses that fulfill those interests. I sense that personality trait has defined his academic path in a different way than many of his peers, yet there are plenty of students like him ---they just don't feed the popular press headlines about Stanford. |
I believe that impression is a confusion. At many Engineering schools, including Princeton, UVa, & UMd, the median E school students often have better non-STEM qualifications (grades, SAT, ACT, APs) than the median humanities students. For those students, who actually are numerous, humanities courses are usually much easier than the STEM courses. By contrast, I do not know even one Engineer who “enjoyed” their E school classes. They all find engineering rewarding and they enjoy working in engineering, but they did not “enjoy” E School. Engineering classes are very very difficult, at any E school, and even for the top students. It is not unusual for a 50% correct test score in an Engineering school course to be an A or for a 30% correct score to be a C. There is a prior thread which covers this in more detail - search for “Engineering Degree” or similar in the College forum. |
I'm the PP. For me personally, the workload in STEM was just too much. It felt like I didn't have time to breathe. I managed to maintain reasonably good grades but I never had a free weekend and often missed Thanksgiving and Easter because I needed to stay on campus grinding on my engineering assignments. I put in close to 70 hours per week on coursework. I think STEM is very difficult at most places. Princeton has a higher proportion of hardcore gunners than most places. When you're in an engineering class where every single kid got an 800 on the math SAT but only 25% of people can walk away with A-range grades, things can get rough. If you want the A in Princeton STEM, you need to outwork a large number of really really smart people. For what it's worth, I do know some engineers who had a much nicer time because they just didn't care as much about grades. I also know some freaks of nature who always beat the curve without too much work haha. Engineering is brutal anywhere, but Princeton has some of the strongest students in the nation, meaning it has some of the hardest curves. With some exceptions, most of my STEM friends really liked their humanities courses. Also most of my humanities friends regularly partied on weekends or took trips to New York and still graduated with good grades. I do genuinely believe that Princeton is a lovely place if you major in the humanities and take it easy - do not overload on courses or take too many "hards" at once. Humanities can also be really hard if you make choose the hardest courses haha. I would have personally done a history degree but I grew up without money and felt compelled to take the safest route rather than the route I thought I'd enjoy most. |
OP here. These replies are super helpful. Thank you.
FWIW the vast majority of students we know who went to Stanford switched to CS. I get the sense that's more true there. One mom just explained that everything at Stanford is set up for CS, and it's just easier to go with the flow. My kid has a strong sense of self and is bull-headed. Very outgoing and social. Not only do I think he will stick to his guns, I do not think the fact he is relegated to being a lesser major would bother him too much. Otherwise I'd recommend P over S, definitely. Don't get the sense humanities students at P are quite as stigmatized as those at S. |
Lesser in quotes, obviously! I believe very strongly in the value of a humanities education and have two humanities-oriented kids to prove it. |
PP here with kid at Stanford. Humanities students are not stigmatized at Stanford. Quite the opposite, it seems our kid is celebrated for pursuing something different. Your kid will get a fine education at either school. |
Admitted students day will give your student an opportunity explore the humanities at Stanford. Tons of research opportunities and the professors are world renown, accessible, and experts in their fields.
https://humsci.stanford.edu/ |
Unfortunately he can't make Stanford's admitted students day because of a prior commitment (wish they had more than one option). He is hoping to hang out with a student and perhaps even spend the night. Good news is both sound wonderful.
As someone who grew up in a lower-income community, I totally understand the experience of landing at a selective college and feeling that only certain majors would land me a job. Many years later, life experience has taught me otherwise. Princeton poster - hopefully you will give your kids more freedom to pursue what truly interests them, just like I am doing now. |
Princeton. Not even close. |
I’m sure that Stanford has a great humanities program, but I thought it was Princeton’s greatest strength. Also, at Princeton, the humanities are more celebrated, not an appendage to CS/tech/startup bro culture. If your kid wants to stay on the east coast after graduation, that’s another vote for Princeton. |
Will Princeton be more socially hierarchical / old money-led? |