Attorneys who bill their hours--help me please!

[Anonymous]

I will say cheating is rampant in biglaw, but it's starting to change. Companies are starting to push back on the unwarranted bills. There's a reason why my minimum billables dropped from 1950 to 1200 when I went from biglaw to smalllaw, and it's not just the salary decrease. It's that the 1200 hours were for *real* hours.

[Anonymous]

i find this interesting. don't work in law, but do work with the same billable hours setup.

i almost spit my drink out reading "bobo"... haahahaha!

[Anonymous]

What does bobo mean? I am stumped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say cheating is rampant in biglaw, but it's starting to change. Companies are starting to push back on the unwarranted bills. There's a reason why my minimum billables dropped from 1950 to 1200 when I went from biglaw to smalllaw, and it's not just the salary decrease. It's that the 1200 hours were for *real* hours.

Most people put in 40 hours a week--those of us who are the "little" people-- you are putting in less than 40 billable hours per week. Not on partner track, are you? Anyway, I do think lawyers p[ad bills even in small firms. Maybe you are the one and only honest lawyer who doesn't. What is your name because I want to nominate you for the Nobel Prize in Ethics, as soon as it is created.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does bobo mean? I am stumped.

oh it doesn't mean anything. it was a typo meant to be "the bottom line" per the next post. it was just a hilariously random typo in a heated discussion.

[Anonymous]

Wow, I guess I'm really naive. I work in biglaw, 1900 min hour requirement, I've never not hit 1900 (working in it for 7 years), usually have to go more. Those are my real hours. It sucks, I do work really long hours and have to work a good amount more than what I bill to account for nonbillable work, admin time, breaks, DCUM, chit chat, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed with 6:55 - people are cheating. A lot of people "enter their time" at the end of the month and these are people who aren't keeping track of it on paper or whatever. People will bill an hour to a case that they "thought about" while driving home in traffic. They also might not to cutting out the time they spent chatting in front of the water cooler.

Of course, there are "down times" and work is cyclical. The longer you are out of law school and the longer you have been keeping track of your time, the less scrupulous you are about it.

Our company attorney used to bill for having a drink after work or attending an office party. One time he sent, without any reason, an article he "thought" president of Co. would find of interest and had the nerve to send a billl. Pres. wrote back that he did not ask for this article , didn't know it was sent, and had no intention of paying. After that, lawyer was no longer invited to office parties, drink after work and co. changed firms within 6 months. Just be honest and if your firm wants you to bill client whenever you even think about them, keep your honor and integrity, and get out.

Oh god I love that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say cheating is rampant in biglaw, but it's starting to change. Companies are starting to push back on the unwarranted bills. There's a reason why my minimum billables dropped from 1950 to 1200 when I went from biglaw to smalllaw, and it's not just the salary decrease. It's that the 1200 hours were for *real* hours.

Most people put in 40 hours a week--those of us who are the "little" people-- you are putting in less than 40 billable hours per week. Not on partner track, are you? Anyway, I do think lawyers p[ad bills even in small firms. Maybe you are the one and only honest lawyer who doesn't. What is your name because I want to nominate you for the Nobel Prize in Ethics, as soon as it is created.

Actually, I am a partner. And you do realize that people work many hours per week that are non billable, right? Between administrative and non-billable work, I work about 55 hours per week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say cheating is rampant in biglaw, but it's starting to change. Companies are starting to push back on the unwarranted bills. There's a reason why my minimum billables dropped from 1950 to 1200 when I went from biglaw to smalllaw, and it's not just the salary decrease. It's that the 1200 hours were for *real* hours.

Most people put in 40 hours a week--those of us who are the "little" people-- you are putting in less than 40 billable hours per week. Not on partner track, are you? Anyway, I do think lawyers p[ad bills even in small firms. Maybe you are the one and only honest lawyer who doesn't. What is your name because I want to nominate you for the Nobel Prize in Ethics, as soon as it is created.

You sound like a bitter legal secretary. Get back to making my coffee, sweetheart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say cheating is rampant in biglaw, but it's starting to change. Companies are starting to push back on the unwarranted bills. There's a reason why my minimum billables dropped from 1950 to 1200 when I went from biglaw to smalllaw, and it's not just the salary decrease. It's that the 1200 hours were for *real* hours.

Most people put in 40 hours a week--those of us who are the "little" people-- you are putting in less than 40 billable hours per week. Not on partner track, are you? Anyway, I do think lawyers p[ad bills even in small firms. Maybe you are the one and only honest lawyer who doesn't. What is your name because I want to nominate you for the Nobel Prize in Ethics, as soon as it is created.

You sound like a bitter legal secretary. Get back to making my coffee, sweetheart.

Are you crazy? I married a lawyer (for about a sfternoon) and I sure as hell would not have worked for one. Being married to one was my hell on earth but the other guy still hasn't given out his name and other detaisl, so I can nominate him for the soon to be created Nobel prize for Ethics. Also, I did work in a company where women were supposed to make the coffee but my coffee was so awful (either way too strong or way too weak), this privilege was taken away from me. Boo hoo.

[Anonymous]

I'm a partner at a large firm. I often work on a dozen different client/matters a day, and no I don't pad my time. There's not much benefit to padding your bills -- the billing partner will write of your excessive time and won't use you next time because you look inefficient, and the clients complain about the bill and ask that it be reduced or may just take their business elsewhere next time.

I'm much more inclined to seek out associates to help me on projects who are efficient -- i.e, get the work done quickly at low cost. It makes clients happy and that keeps them coming back; big bills do not. The ABA just published an article today that says five years down the line, no one remembers if you hit your hours, but they do remember if you do sub-par work and are inefficient.

Office face time can be deceptive. I do about 20 percent of my work from home. I know litigators who work from 8 p.m. to 1 a.m. every night from home. Plus, lots of things are not billable -- client development, mentoring, reviewing bills, writing articles, keeping time, etc. So you may be in the office for 12 hours and only able to bill 8.

[Anonymous]

Wow, pp. Life has changed since I was in BigLaw over 10 years ago. We were expected to be there IN the office long hours. There was no working from home. I remember people balking if I left at 7:00 pm. I came in every morning at 7:00 am (which one partner knew because he was there), but that didn't seem to matter. there was apparently some magic that happened after 7:00 pm.

I'm glad it has changed. It would have been much more bearable if working at home were tolerated. I made my hours every year but hated the idea that I had to be there to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, pp. Life has changed since I was in BigLaw over 10 years ago. We were expected to be there IN the office long hours. There was no working from home. I remember people balking if I left at 7:00 pm. I came in every morning at 7:00 am (which one partner knew because he was there), but that didn't seem to matter. there was apparently some magic that happened after 7:00 pm.

I'm glad it has changed. It would have been much more bearable if working at home were tolerated. I made my hours every year but hated the idea that I had to be there to do it.

Not a lawyer, but I think working from home has changed in every industry in the last 10 years. I remember in 1998 not everyone in my office had full access to the internet! And certainly only a few had blackberries back then - technology has evolved and it's pretty much accepted that everyone has high speed internet and capacity to log in to the network from home. And of course most of us have blackberries now too which means people are checking in more.

The ability to use BBs and work from home can be a drag (expected to work all the time) but can be really freeing too (leave the office at 5 knowing you can pick back up at 9. Get filled in on anything before you even get to work in the morning, etc.).

[Anonymous]

7:02 here -- part of the reason so much of my work is from home is becasue I have kids and because of the nature of my practice in which clinets need advice 24/7. I often work from home very early in the morning before my kids wake up or late after they've gone to bed. I try to be home by 6:30-7 p.m. every night, but I'm still on blackberry. I have an arrangment with my firm where I work from home one day a week and have an 80 percent salary/billable target. I still work five days a week, plus most holidays (from home), and I'm on blackbery on weekends (from home).

[Anonymous]

Another biglaw lawyer here -- I leave in time to be home by 7:00-7:30 most nights, and often work 9:30-11:30 at home and at various times on the weekends. While many people do pad hours, many do not and are just working at uncivilized times outside of the office.