Middle school/HS Basketball

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who played a lot of sports who started playing basketball in 6th grade and loves it. In the past, he played baseball, soccer, swim and tennis. He was good at all of them competing well all through elementary.

He tried out for travel and AAU basketball and did not make the team. He has only played basketball for one year and obviously lacks the experience other kids have. I am well aware that basketball is one of the most competitive sports and many of these kids have been playing basketball since a young age and have also been on these more competitive teams since elementary.

Does my kid have any shot or is he too late?

He also is not tall. He is above average but not what anyone would consider tall on a basketball team. I’m guessing he will end up around 6’ in high school.

Our expectations are pretty low. We just want him to make the high school basketball team. We live in an UMC neighborhood. I don’t think many/any kids are basketball recruits. This is just a regular high school not known for basketball.

OP, my son about where your son is when he was in 7th grade. My son started doing weekly individual coaching and tried out for a low level AAU team (MADE), which he made. The weekly individual workouts made a big difference, as did some small group training focused on 2 on 2 and 3 on 3 play. My kid was zoned for a basketball powerhouse high school (usually in the ESPN top 25), and he REALLY wanted to play in HS, so he trained obsessively — like at least an hour every day that he didn’t have practice all year long, and usually they’d have to kick him out of the gym after practice. He did camps and skills classes during MS in addition to year round AAU and school ball.

By HS, he made his school’s freshman team, then varsity by the end of the season. So it’s doable, but it takes work. Definitely easier if your school has a freshman team.

One thing — people obsess about height, but athleticism also matters. DS was 6’1” as a freshman but one of only a couple of freshmen who could dunk. Another was 5’11 and very athletic. So if your kid has a great vertical, that helps a lot.

Also, be aware that most high schools play summer league. If your kid wants to play in the winter, he should attend open gyms spring of 8th grade year and try to make summer league. By tryouts in October, DS and several other kids had already played summer and fall league their freshman year.

6'1 is really tall though for a 9th grader. (Not "basketball tall", but still, really tall.) It is silly to tell people not to worry about heigh b/c your kid is "only" 6'1.

You missed the point. People who don’t know the game assume that any tall kid can play. My kid jumped over lots of big, slow 6’2” and 6’3” kids. A 6’8” kid didn’t make JV because he wasn’t athletic and didn’t have skills.

It’s not about height. It’s about skill and athleticism.

I would consider your kid tall. Yes, that is not basketball tall but still tall compared to our average height kids.

We recently went to a tryout where it felt like the coach picked all the tall kids including a very slow kid and put them on one court and left all the average and short kids on the other side of the court. Your kid would have been on the tall side.

I’m curious if this was for high school aged kids? Athleticism starts to matter when kids are playing above the rim, which is more in high school. Much before that, vertical jump seems to matter less.

It was for a middle school AAU team.

I’m not sure what above the rim means. No one in this age group can dunk. The tallest kid there was probably 5’11”, maybe 6’.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who played a lot of sports who started playing basketball in 6th grade and loves it. In the past, he played baseball, soccer, swim and tennis. He was good at all of them competing well all through elementary.

He tried out for travel and AAU basketball and did not make the team. He has only played basketball for one year and obviously lacks the experience other kids have. I am well aware that basketball is one of the most competitive sports and many of these kids have been playing basketball since a young age and have also been on these more competitive teams since elementary.

Does my kid have any shot or is he too late?

He also is not tall. He is above average but not what anyone would consider tall on a basketball team. I’m guessing he will end up around 6’ in high school.

Our expectations are pretty low. We just want him to make the high school basketball team. We live in an UMC neighborhood. I don’t think many/any kids are basketball recruits. This is just a regular high school not known for basketball.

OP, my son about where your son is when he was in 7th grade. My son started doing weekly individual coaching and tried out for a low level AAU team (MADE), which he made. The weekly individual workouts made a big difference, as did some small group training focused on 2 on 2 and 3 on 3 play. My kid was zoned for a basketball powerhouse high school (usually in the ESPN top 25), and he REALLY wanted to play in HS, so he trained obsessively — like at least an hour every day that he didn’t have practice all year long, and usually they’d have to kick him out of the gym after practice. He did camps and skills classes during MS in addition to year round AAU and school ball.

By HS, he made his school’s freshman team, then varsity by the end of the season. So it’s doable, but it takes work. Definitely easier if your school has a freshman team.

One thing — people obsess about height, but athleticism also matters. DS was 6’1” as a freshman but one of only a couple of freshmen who could dunk. Another was 5’11 and very athletic. So if your kid has a great vertical, that helps a lot.

Also, be aware that most high schools play summer league. If your kid wants to play in the winter, he should attend open gyms spring of 8th grade year and try to make summer league. By tryouts in October, DS and several other kids had already played summer and fall league their freshman year.

6'1 is really tall though for a 9th grader. (Not "basketball tall", but still, really tall.) It is silly to tell people not to worry about heigh b/c your kid is "only" 6'1.

You missed the point. People who don’t know the game assume that any tall kid can play. My kid jumped over lots of big, slow 6’2” and 6’3” kids. A 6’8” kid didn’t make JV because he wasn’t athletic and didn’t have skills.

It’s not about height. It’s about skill and athleticism.

I would consider your kid tall. Yes, that is not basketball tall but still tall compared to our average height kids.

We recently went to a tryout where it felt like the coach picked all the tall kids including a very slow kid and put them on one court and left all the average and short kids on the other side of the court. Your kid would have been on the tall side.

I’m curious if this was for high school aged kids? Athleticism starts to matter when kids are playing above the rim, which is more in high school. Much before that, vertical jump seems to matter less.

It was for a middle school AAU team.

I’m not sure what above the rim means. No one in this age group can dunk. The tallest kid there was probably 5’11”, maybe 6’.

Yes, above the rim refers to dunks, alley oops, and tip ins, but also blocks which become a big deal in HS and are the reason kids are supposed to dunk if they can.

When you said coaches were picking slow tall kids, I figured it has to be middle school or younger. Basketball changes a LOT by freshman year of high school as boys go through puberty because many of them become really athletic. So while a 6’1” seventh grader may not be able to jump very high, some 5’10” high school kids can dunk.

HS coaches value the athleticism of a 6’1” kid with a 32” vertical more then the height of taller kids who can’t jump, and this becomes more true at higher levels. Reed Sheppard, the Kentucky freshman currently projected as a top 5 draft pick is a good example — he’s 6’2” but incredibly skilled, fast and athletic. Whereas Armando Bacot at 6’8” — who was amazing in college and holds some ACC scoring and double double records — won’t be drafted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who played a lot of sports who started playing basketball in 6th grade and loves it. In the past, he played baseball, soccer, swim and tennis. He was good at all of them competing well all through elementary.

He tried out for travel and AAU basketball and did not make the team. He has only played basketball for one year and obviously lacks the experience other kids have. I am well aware that basketball is one of the most competitive sports and many of these kids have been playing basketball since a young age and have also been on these more competitive teams since elementary.

Does my kid have any shot or is he too late?

He also is not tall. He is above average but not what anyone would consider tall on a basketball team. I’m guessing he will end up around 6’ in high school.

Our expectations are pretty low. We just want him to make the high school basketball team. We live in an UMC neighborhood. I don’t think many/any kids are basketball recruits. This is just a regular high school not known for basketball.

OP, my son about where your son is when he was in 7th grade. My son started doing weekly individual coaching and tried out for a low level AAU team (MADE), which he made. The weekly individual workouts made a big difference, as did some small group training focused on 2 on 2 and 3 on 3 play. My kid was zoned for a basketball powerhouse high school (usually in the ESPN top 25), and he REALLY wanted to play in HS, so he trained obsessively — like at least an hour every day that he didn’t have practice all year long, and usually they’d have to kick him out of the gym after practice. He did camps and skills classes during MS in addition to year round AAU and school ball.

By HS, he made his school’s freshman team, then varsity by the end of the season. So it’s doable, but it takes work. Definitely easier if your school has a freshman team.

One thing — people obsess about height, but athleticism also matters. DS was 6’1” as a freshman but one of only a couple of freshmen who could dunk. Another was 5’11 and very athletic. So if your kid has a great vertical, that helps a lot.

Also, be aware that most high schools play summer league. If your kid wants to play in the winter, he should attend open gyms spring of 8th grade year and try to make summer league. By tryouts in October, DS and several other kids had already played summer and fall league their freshman year.

6'1 is really tall though for a 9th grader. (Not "basketball tall", but still, really tall.) It is silly to tell people not to worry about heigh b/c your kid is "only" 6'1.

You missed the point. People who don’t know the game assume that any tall kid can play. My kid jumped over lots of big, slow 6’2” and 6’3” kids. A 6’8” kid didn’t make JV because he wasn’t athletic and didn’t have skills.

It’s not about height. It’s about skill and athleticism.

I would consider your kid tall. Yes, that is not basketball tall but still tall compared to our average height kids.

We recently went to a tryout where it felt like the coach picked all the tall kids including a very slow kid and put them on one court and left all the average and short kids on the other side of the court. Your kid would have been on the tall side.

I’m curious if this was for high school aged kids? Athleticism starts to matter when kids are playing above the rim, which is more in high school. Much before that, vertical jump seems to matter less.

It was for a middle school AAU team.

I’m not sure what above the rim means. No one in this age group can dunk. The tallest kid there was probably 5’11”, maybe 6’.

Yes, above the rim refers to dunks, alley oops, and tip ins, but also blocks which become a big deal in HS and are the reason kids are supposed to dunk if they can.

When you said coaches were picking slow tall kids, I figured it has to be middle school or younger. Basketball changes a LOT by freshman year of high school as boys go through puberty because many of them become really athletic. So while a 6’1” seventh grader may not be able to jump very high, some 5’10” high school kids can dunk.

HS coaches value the athleticism of a 6’1” kid with a 32” vertical more than the height of taller kids who can’t jump, and this becomes more true at higher levels. Reed Sheppard, the Kentucky freshman currently projected as a top 5 draft pick is a good example — he’s 6’2” but incredibly skilled, fast and athletic. Whereas Armando Bacot at 6’8” — who was amazing in college and holds some ACC scoring and double double records — won’t be drafted.

I don’t think DS is cut out for competitive basketball. He started late and he has two average height parents. He plays point guard, which I have been told is the most popular position that almost everyone plays. DS is definitely athletic but it is unlikely he will ever be able to dunk or touch the rim.

[Anonymous]

If he wants to play a high school sport, he should take up lacrosse. Its non-cut for JV at many schools. Basketball is really competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he wants to play a high school sport, he should take up lacrosse. Its non-cut for JV at many schools. Basketball is really competitive.

+1

Focusing on basketball will likely end up in disappointment. I’d look at a different sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends on the HS.

This is baseball, but my DD attends a HS that routinely goes to the state championships; it's just expected.

He's a freshman, and he's a star on his club team, but he decided to not even tryout his freshman year.

Meanwhile, some of his club teammates made their JV teams despite often not making the starting lineup on the club team. I think their JV team for their HS was no-cut.

So its not just how good your DS is; its what's the level of competition at your specific school

Its MUCH easier to make a JV baseball team than a JV basketball team at a large public HS. I have no idea about private schools.

You missed my larger point: it depends on the HS.

I wasn't comparing the sports. I was saying that Kid A might be better than Kid B, but Kid B goes to a HS with a losing program and is able to make their team, while Kid A got cut.

It's not just comparing 2 kids. The quality of the program of the HS is just as much a factor as is the ability of the athlete

I'll add, that even though on average, I agree with you. Its MUCH harder to make the baseball team at DS's large high school. The level of talent is through the roof.

At which large public HS is it harder to make the JV baseball team than the JV basketball team? I honestly can't think of how that could possibly be the case. More kids play basketball everywhere and basketball rosters are much smaller.

Come out to some of the rural / semi-rural areas. The high schools still have over 2,000 kids, but baseball (and football) is king. I know of a few (maybe 3, but I'm sure there are more) travel basketball teams out where we live, but can think of 10-12 very good travel baseball teams.

And this is still all within 90 minutes of DC

I don't understand why baseball has entered this conversation. The DMV may have one team ranked in the top 50 nationally in baseball, but has FIVE basketball teams ranked in the top 20 nationally, including PVI ranked #2. You also have Gonzaga, Bullis, Sidwell, and Jackson-Reed.

To OP...what HS would your kid attend? If your kid is going to any of the HSs listed above, and even throw in SJC, O'Connell and Dematha...it will be exceedingly difficult to play on these teams. These teams aren't just good in the DMV...again, they are some of the best in the nation.

Now, if your kid is going to Walls or GDS...that is a different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really depends on the HS.

This is baseball, but my DD attends a HS that routinely goes to the state championships; it's just expected.

He's a freshman, and he's a star on his club team, but he decided to not even tryout his freshman year.

Meanwhile, some of his club teammates made their JV teams despite often not making the starting lineup on the club team. I think their JV team for their HS was no-cut.

So its not just how good your DS is; its what's the level of competition at your specific school

Its MUCH easier to make a JV baseball team than a JV basketball team at a large public HS. I have no idea about private schools.

You missed my larger point: it depends on the HS.

I wasn't comparing the sports. I was saying that Kid A might be better than Kid B, but Kid B goes to a HS with a losing program and is able to make their team, while Kid A got cut.

It's not just comparing 2 kids. The quality of the program of the HS is just as much a factor as is the ability of the athlete

I'll add, that even though on average, I agree with you. Its MUCH harder to make the baseball team at DS's large high school. The level of talent is through the roof.

At which large public HS is it harder to make the JV baseball team than the JV basketball team? I honestly can't think of how that could possibly be the case. More kids play basketball everywhere and basketball rosters are much smaller.

Come out to some of the rural / semi-rural areas. The high schools still have over 2,000 kids, but baseball (and football) is king. I know of a few (maybe 3, but I'm sure there are more) travel basketball teams out where we live, but can think of 10-12 very good travel baseball teams.

And this is still all within 90 minutes of DC

I don't understand why baseball has entered this conversation. The DMV may have one team ranked in the top 50 nationally in baseball, but has FIVE basketball teams ranked in the top 20 nationally, including PVI ranked #2. You also have Gonzaga, Bullis, Sidwell, and Jackson-Reed.

To OP...what HS would your kid attend? If your kid is going to any of the HSs listed above, and even throw in SJC, O'Connell and Dematha...it will be exceedingly difficult to play on these teams. These teams aren't just good in the DMV...again, they are some of the best in the nation.

Now, if your kid is going to Walls or GDS...that is a different story.

You may want to actually read the thread before asking how a topic came up.

A PP was using their personal story with baseball to demonstrate that the quality of any local HS program has just as much an impact on the athlete's chance to make the HS team as their actual ability in the sport does.

That a varsity baseball player at School A may not even make the JV baseball team at school B.

This was in response to OP asking if her DS had a shot at the HS team. And the PP was basically saying that there's no way to answer that question without knowing the high school, and used their personal experience to demonstrate that.

THAT's how baseball entered the conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid who played a lot of sports who started playing basketball in 6th grade and loves it. In the past, he played baseball, soccer, swim and tennis. He was good at all of them competing well all through elementary.

He tried out for travel and AAU basketball and did not make the team. He has only played basketball for one year and obviously lacks the experience other kids have. I am well aware that basketball is one of the most competitive sports and many of these kids have been playing basketball since a young age and have also been on these more competitive teams since elementary.

Does my kid have any shot or is he too late?

He also is not tall. He is above average but not what anyone would consider tall on a basketball team. I’m guessing he will end up around 6’ in high school.

Our expectations are pretty low. We just want him to make the high school basketball team. We live in an UMC neighborhood. I don’t think many/any kids are basketball recruits. This is just a regular high school not known for basketball.

OP, my son about where your son is when he was in 7th grade. My son started doing weekly individual coaching and tried out for a low level AAU team (MADE), which he made. The weekly individual workouts made a big difference, as did some small group training focused on 2 on 2 and 3 on 3 play. My kid was zoned for a basketball powerhouse high school (usually in the ESPN top 25), and he REALLY wanted to play in HS, so he trained obsessively — like at least an hour every day that he didn’t have practice all year long, and usually they’d have to kick him out of the gym after practice. He did camps and skills classes during MS in addition to year round AAU and school ball.

By HS, he made his school’s freshman team, then varsity by the end of the season. So it’s doable, but it takes work. Definitely easier if your school has a freshman team.

One thing — people obsess about height, but athleticism also matters. DS was 6’1” as a freshman but one of only a couple of freshmen who could dunk. Another was 5’11 and very athletic. So if your kid has a great vertical, that helps a lot.

Also, be aware that most high schools play summer league. If your kid wants to play in the winter, he should attend open gyms spring of 8th grade year and try to make summer league. By tryouts in October, DS and several other kids had already played summer and fall league their freshman year.

6'1 is really tall though for a 9th grader. (Not "basketball tall", but still, really tall.) It is silly to tell people not to worry about heigh b/c your kid is "only" 6'1.

You missed the point. People who don’t know the game assume that any tall kid can play. My kid jumped over lots of big, slow 6’2” and 6’3” kids. A 6’8” kid didn’t make JV because he wasn’t athletic and didn’t have skills.

It’s not about height. It’s about skill and athleticism.

I would consider your kid tall. Yes, that is not basketball tall but still tall compared to our average height kids.

We recently went to a tryout where it felt like the coach picked all the tall kids including a very slow kid and put them on one court and left all the average and short kids on the other side of the court. Your kid would have been on the tall side.

I’m curious if this was for high school aged kids? Athleticism starts to matter when kids are playing above the rim, which is more in high school. Much before that, vertical jump seems to matter less.

It was for a middle school AAU team.

I’m not sure what above the rim means. No one in this age group can dunk. The tallest kid there was probably 5’11”, maybe 6’.

Yes, above the rim refers to dunks, alley oops, and tip ins, but also blocks which become a big deal in HS and are the reason kids are supposed to dunk if they can.

When you said coaches were picking slow tall kids, I figured it has to be middle school or younger. Basketball changes a LOT by freshman year of high school as boys go through puberty because many of them become really athletic. So while a 6’1” seventh grader may not be able to jump very high, some 5’10” high school kids can dunk.

HS coaches value the athleticism of a 6’1” kid with a 32” vertical more than the height of taller kids who can’t jump, and this becomes more true at higher levels. Reed Sheppard, the Kentucky freshman currently projected as a top 5 draft pick is a good example — he’s 6’2” but incredibly skilled, fast and athletic. Whereas Armando Bacot at 6’8” — who was amazing in college and holds some ACC scoring and double double records — won’t be drafted.

I don’t think DS is cut out for competitive basketball. He started late and he has two average height parents. He plays point guard, which I have been told is the most popular position that almost everyone plays. DS is definitely athletic but it is unlikely he will ever be able to dunk or touch the rim.

Dunking or playing above the rim is not dispositive. He can also work on his vertical. I was 5-9 my senior year (before my last growth spurt). Through work and dedication I was dunking the ball my senior year and could get above the rim. It didn't change much for me as a basketball player.

Point guard is and is not the most popular position. Basketball has evolved significantly over the past decade plus and so has the point guard position. This is largely the Steph Curry effect. There are really two types of point guards. The "scoring" point guard and the "pass first" point guard. Everybody wants to be the former. The latter has always been a rarity and has only become more rare as basketball has evolved. But HS coaches love a pass first point guard if they can find one. They'll often reorient their entire playbook and strategy around the pass first point guard. Teammates love playing with the pass first point guard and opponents hate playing against him because they know they will have to work incredibly hard that night. And, often times out of necessity, the pass first point guard is not physically intimidating, though he needs to be quick.

If your son is pre-HS, find a coach that will develop him as a pass first point guard and he'll have a fighting chance to get on the varsity team. It is hard to learn and execute, it takes lots of dedication, but if the kid wants it and has the propensity to do it, then push him.

Propensity = kid who understands where the 9 other players on the court are supposed to be at all times, who is almost like a second coach or the coach on the floor, and who has the desire to share the ball to create easier shots for his teammates rather than just score it. He also has to be able to process volumes of information in split seconds while being decisive with that information.

Your focus should not be how easy it is for him to score, but rather how much easier he makes it for others to score. Don't worry about fans or what other players think. Every basketball coach recognizes it when they see it. FTR, I was not a PG, but I loved the pass first point guard I played with.