What is the point of AAP Center in middle school?

[Anonymous]

We are zoned for the AAP center for middle school anyway.

Other kids go to their base middle school over the AAP center reasoning then they’d get to know kids for their local high school and that the difference between honors and AAP by middle school isn’t all the much.

I think the people in this thread who think AAP vs honors in MS matters - are probably slightly less socially adept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our AAP center middle school we were told the AAP classes would be slightly more advanced (but they didn't specify HOW they would be more advanced) than the honors classes.

Exactly. They can't officially specify 'how' because they would then have to talk about peer group, which is not a topic that FCPS wants to discuss.

This is true at the center schools but it’s different at the not center base middle schools that have a local level IV middle school program - there the local level IV MS would be akin to the center AAP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid can attend the AAP Center middle school or the base middle school that offers local level IV instruction and groups AAP kids together in Honors classes. I confirmed with both the AAP center middle school and the base middle school and my kid's elementary school that that Honors curriculum is identical to the AAP curriculum. Again, there is no difference in the program of instruction beyond that the middle school report card from the Center school will show "AAP" and the base middle school will show "Honors." This has been confirmed by the administration at all three schools. So what is the point of having an AAP Center? I assume it's because some middle schools don't have the local level IV instruction?

The point for you and your kid is that the AAP center will likely offer a stronger peer group. And if a teacher has a stronger peer group in a particular classroom, it is possible that they may decide to challenge the students a bit more which would obviously translate to them learning more.

Specific example: I believe Longfellow has (or had?) a class called GPS (geometry problem solving) that is much more challenging than a normal honors geometry class. This class tends to attract many of the top math students, i.e the ones who are very good at math contests and go on to TJ and excel there. There were rumors that in GPS the kids would occasionally be given challenge problems similar to ones found in olympiads (think USAJMO). Not sure if they were actually graded on these problems, but in any case if they had a chance to work on such things, there's no doubt that they benefited greatly. Note: this is admittedly an extreme example, but it highlights the 'school within a school' principle where the class may look to be the same on the surface, but it can go much deeper, depending on the peer group.

Thanks for this. At our base middle school, kids coming from full-time AAP in elementary are grouped together in Honors classes that are given the local Level IV instruction. So the peer group is the same as the one that would be found at the AAP Center. Perhaps this isn't done at other base middle schools and is an anomaly at ours.

The AAP MS center also gets AAP students from other schools, right? How might that affect peer group? It's the same question regarding Local L4 v. Center L4 AAP: Is the local peer group as high-achieving as the center peer group? That varies from school to school, IMO.

This is an interesting perspective - thank you. It underscores for me how impossible it is to predict the peer group is at both the Center vs the Local Level IV middle school. They are both drawing from the pool of AAP students and the ultimate alchemy depends on student personalities.

And the more “normal” smart kids will chose base school for social reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid can attend the AAP Center middle school or the base middle school that offers local level IV instruction and groups AAP kids together in Honors classes. I confirmed with both the AAP center middle school and the base middle school and my kid's elementary school that that Honors curriculum is identical to the AAP curriculum. Again, there is no difference in the program of instruction beyond that the middle school report card from the Center school will show "AAP" and the base middle school will show "Honors." This has been confirmed by the administration at all three schools. So what is the point of having an AAP Center? I assume it's because some middle schools don't have the local level IV instruction?

The point for you and your kid is that the AAP center will likely offer a stronger peer group. And if a teacher has a stronger peer group in a particular classroom, it is possible that they may decide to challenge the students a bit more which would obviously translate to them learning more.

Specific example: I believe Longfellow has (or had?) a class called GPS (geometry problem solving) that is much more challenging than a normal honors geometry class. This class tends to attract many of the top math students, i.e the ones who are very good at math contests and go on to TJ and excel there. There were rumors that in GPS the kids would occasionally be given challenge problems similar to ones found in olympiads (think USAJMO). Not sure if they were actually graded on these problems, but in any case if they had a chance to work on such things, there's no doubt that they benefited greatly. Note: this is admittedly an extreme example, but it highlights the 'school within a school' principle where the class may look to be the same on the surface, but it can go much deeper, depending on the peer group.

Thanks for this. At our base middle school, kids coming from full-time AAP in elementary are grouped together in Honors classes that are given the local Level IV instruction. So the peer group is the same as the one that would be found at the AAP Center. Perhaps this isn't done at other base middle schools and is an anomaly at ours.

The AAP MS center also gets AAP students from other schools, right? How might that affect peer group? It's the same question regarding Local L4 v. Center L4 AAP: Is the local peer group as high-achieving as the center peer group? That varies from school to school, IMO.

This is an interesting perspective - thank you. It underscores for me how impossible it is to predict the peer group is at both the Center vs the Local Level IV middle school. They are both drawing from the pool of AAP students and the ultimate alchemy depends on student personalities.

And the more “normal” smart kids will chose base school for social reasons.

Maybe, maybe not. The real winners are the kids who are already local to the strong center schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid can attend the AAP Center middle school or the base middle school that offers local level IV instruction and groups AAP kids together in Honors classes. I confirmed with both the AAP center middle school and the base middle school and my kid's elementary school that that Honors curriculum is identical to the AAP curriculum. Again, there is no difference in the program of instruction beyond that the middle school report card from the Center school will show "AAP" and the base middle school will show "Honors." This has been confirmed by the administration at all three schools. So what is the point of having an AAP Center? I assume it's because some middle schools don't have the local level IV instruction?

Local Level IV is still AAP. It's not necessarily the same as straight honors because there are.more cross curricula projects in AAP, even at a Local Level site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The same curriculum doesn’t mean it’s the same experience, depth or discussion as those are greatly affected by the students in the class.

The students in the Honors classes at the base middle school are grouped together in classes and given Local Level IV instruction. It's the same kids who would be eligible to attend the AAP Center middle school.

Yes, but often (not always) the kids who choose to go to the Center are the smarter kids within AAP. I have had a kid go through a Center MS and a kid currently a year and a half into a Local Level IV MS. In our experience, with these two schools, the education was much better at the Center. And not just because of the kids in the class (though many of the smartest kids from my second child's ES Center did go to the MS Center). My older one had one to three hours of homework most nights, lots of thoughtful long term projects, lots of tests, final exams in HS level classes, etc. My second basically never has homework, gets straight As without ever studying, no projects, tests are rare, I could go on. This may be particular to our choice of middle schools, but the Center was much better in our experience. I worry my second is not at all prepared for high school.

We had the opposite experience. My child who went through the Local Level IV MS had a superior experience and education than the child who went through the Center based AAP MS.

The Local program in seventh grade was stellar. Eighth grade was.also good but not as strong as seventh grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The same curriculum doesn’t mean it’s the same experience, depth or discussion as those are greatly affected by the students in the class.

The students in the Honors classes at the base middle school are grouped together in classes and given Local Level IV instruction. It's the same kids who would be eligible to attend the AAP Center middle school.

Yes, but often (not always) the kids who choose to go to the Center are the smarter kids within AAP. I have had a kid go through a Center MS and a kid currently a year and a half into a Local Level IV MS. In our experience, with these two schools, the education was much better at the Center. And not just because of the kids in the class (though many of the smartest kids from my second child's ES Center did go to the MS Center). My older one had one to three hours of homework most nights, lots of thoughtful long term projects, lots of tests, final exams in HS level classes, etc. My second basically never has homework, gets straight As without ever studying, no projects, tests are rare, I could go on. This may be particular to our choice of middle schools, but the Center was much better in our experience. I worry my second is not at all prepared for high school.

We had the opposite experience. My child who went through the Local Level IV MS had a superior experience and education than the child who went through the Center based AAP MS.

The Local program in seventh grade was stellar. Eighth grade was.also good but not as strong as seventh grade.

My child is at a well regarded center and it is too easy.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t see a difference between AAP and Honors at Frost. They seemed to be the same classes with the same curriculum and the same depth. While DC came from the AAP center there were so many LLIV classes at the feeder schools it was a completely new cohort.

[Anonymous]

AAP = segregation. FCPS: equity for everyone except the AAP kids, who are soooooo special.

[Anonymous]

The difference is open enrollment. We (not so) jokingly call honors “faux-ners” because the rigor just can’t be there when only half the class is at or above grade level. I can’t teach anything but the most basic systems of equations to kids who can’t solve an equation or plot a point.

AAP maintains the real rigor, for the most part. Only 1-2 kids in a class struggle with the regular curriculum meaning I have time for real extensions and challenges, vs half in honors and 90% in gen ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference is open enrollment. We (not so) jokingly call honors “faux-ners” because the rigor just can’t be there when only half the class is at or above grade level. I can’t teach anything but the most basic systems of equations to kids who can’t solve an equation or plot a point.

AAP maintains the real rigor, for the most part. Only 1-2 kids in a class struggle with the regular curriculum meaning I have time for real extensions and challenges, vs half in honors and 90% in gen ed.

OP here - Thanks for your insight. I should have highlighted more in my question that the kids coming from Level IV AAP are pooled in their own classes at the non-center school. So there’s Honors classes that are open enrollment and then Honors classes with only AAP kids. The (non-center school) said they do this to ensure the AAP kids can maintain the rigor and pace they were used to in ES.