APS — gifted tracking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is still in early elementary school, so maybe I'll feel differently in a few years. But so far I like the philosophy of not separating kids, especially when they're so young and impressionable. I see them having a positive influence on each other. We did end up doing a supplementary math program this year, which maybe wouldn't be necessary if there were a more robust gifted services program. I'm just not convinced that the FCPS pressure cooker, or the private school rich-kid culture, are necessarily better than what APS offers.

We are trying to figure this out. Is it worth the move to Fairfax or Montgomery County for their better school systems? Is private a better option? I am really struggling with thinking this through.

Tbh, yes. People don't pick APS for the academics. They pick it for the location/proximity to DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is still in early elementary school, so maybe I'll feel differently in a few years. But so far I like the philosophy of not separating kids, especially when they're so young and impressionable. I see them having a positive influence on each other. We did end up doing a supplementary math program this year, which maybe wouldn't be necessary if there were a more robust gifted services program. I'm just not convinced that the FCPS pressure cooker, or the private school rich-kid culture, are necessarily better than what APS offers.

We are trying to figure this out. Is it worth the move to Fairfax or Montgomery County for their better school systems? Is private a better option? I am really struggling with thinking this through.

Tbh, yes. People don't pick APS for the academics. They pick it for the location/proximity to DC.

If you have a smart kid who wouldn't get into AAP, I'd choose Arlington where they're more likely to mixed with more advanced kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is still in early elementary school, so maybe I'll feel differently in a few years. But so far I like the philosophy of not separating kids, especially when they're so young and impressionable. I see them having a positive influence on each other. We did end up doing a supplementary math program this year, which maybe wouldn't be necessary if there were a more robust gifted services program. I'm just not convinced that the FCPS pressure cooker, or the private school rich-kid culture, are necessarily better than what APS offers.

We are trying to figure this out. Is it worth the move to Fairfax or Montgomery County for their better school systems? Is private a better option? I am really struggling with thinking this through.

Tbh, yes. People don't pick APS for the academics. They pick it for the location/proximity to DC.

Nope. Land is generally cheaper in FFX. People buy the best they can afford. No open in APS can afford Kalorama so we are here. But many of us can afford not Fairfax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is still in early elementary school, so maybe I'll feel differently in a few years. But so far I like the philosophy of not separating kids, especially when they're so young and impressionable. I see them having a positive influence on each other. We did end up doing a supplementary math program this year, which maybe wouldn't be necessary if there were a more robust gifted services program. I'm just not convinced that the FCPS pressure cooker, or the private school rich-kid culture, are necessarily better than what APS offers.

We are trying to figure this out. Is it worth the move to Fairfax or Montgomery County for their better school systems? Is private a better option? I am really struggling with thinking this through.

Tbh, yes. People don't pick APS for the academics. They pick it for the location/proximity to DC.

If you have a smart kid who wouldn't get into AAP, I'd choose Arlington where they're more likely to mixed with more advanced kids.

Please show my any evidence that college outcomes differ at all by attending a Fairfax HS over YHS/W&L. You can’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is still in early elementary school, so maybe I'll feel differently in a few years. But so far I like the philosophy of not separating kids, especially when they're so young and impressionable. I see them having a positive influence on each other. We did end up doing a supplementary math program this year, which maybe wouldn't be necessary if there were a more robust gifted services program. I'm just not convinced that the FCPS pressure cooker, or the private school rich-kid culture, are necessarily better than what APS offers.

My 5th grader reads 100-150 pages of her just-for-fun book every day at school because she's allowed to read after finishing her work. She has perfect scores, never studies, and apparently has several hours with nothing to do at school every day except read. They never give her more to do.

Why not send her to school with books she can read AND learn from. More non-fiction etc.

But this is exactly why smaller class sizes should be everyone’s top priority. Teachers are stretched too thin. Of course they’re going to give more attention to the kids struggling with math than the one who does it with ease. If they had smaller classes, they’d have more ability to meet gifted kids where they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m new to the area and my oldest is in early elementary in APS. I’m trying to understand how gifted “clustering” works. Essentially, it sounds like they track the “gifted” kids into a specific class so they’re together. Or am I not understanding clustering properly?

They’re together, but that doesn’t mean they are doing anything that the rest of the grade isn’t doing. They might be offered the choice of doing some extra worksheets on the same topic that the class is covering, but that’s it. The theory behind anti-tracking is that if you track too early some capable children will be left behind and never catch up. Therefore you need to not teach the advanced kids anything additional so they remain catchable. I think this actually makes sense for K, 1st, 2nd, maybe 3rd… but at some point you’re just hamstringing kids and teaching them that the bare minimum is ok and they don’t have to try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is still in early elementary school, so maybe I'll feel differently in a few years. But so far I like the philosophy of not separating kids, especially when they're so young and impressionable. I see them having a positive influence on each other. We did end up doing a supplementary math program this year, which maybe wouldn't be necessary if there were a more robust gifted services program. I'm just not convinced that the FCPS pressure cooker, or the private school rich-kid culture, are necessarily better than what APS offers.

My 5th grader reads 100-150 pages of her just-for-fun book every day at school because she's allowed to read after finishing her work. She has perfect scores, never studies, and apparently has several hours with nothing to do at school every day except read. They never give her more to do.

Why not send her to school with books she can read AND learn from. More non-fiction etc.

But this is exactly why smaller class sizes should be everyone’s top priority. Teachers are stretched too thin. Of course they’re going to give more attention to the kids struggling with math than the one who does it with ease. If they had smaller classes, they’d have more ability to meet gifted kids where they are.

She's prefers fiction, so I've been encouraging age appropriate literature. She's not reading fluff. I just wish they'd give her more content.

[Anonymous]

https://analytics.apsva.us/public/equity/aps_membership.html

Look at the numbers. They are nowhere near half the students

[Anonymous]

FCPS AAP process is not intense, some parents make it intense but it really isn't. Kids take the NNAT in 1st grade and the CoGAT in 2nd grade. The top 10% at each school, based on those test scores, are in-pool and will have packets built for them regardless of what their parents may do. Parents can submit a referral for their child, if they do, the school puts together a packet. A Central Committee meets sometime in March to review the packets and selects kids for LIV.

Now, there are schools were the parents are crazy and think LIV is everything and that it is 100% necessary to get into TJ to get into MIT. Those are the ones who tend to post on the AAP board. The other crazy parents are the ones who bought in a Title 1 boundary and are shocked that the ES is not great for their kid. Then LIV is the end all and be all to change schools without having to give up the bigger house and yard in a less desirable school boundary.

Plenty of FCPS schools have LLIV programs that are solid and without crazy parents. We are at a school were most of the parents don't send their kids to the Center and he kids are clustered, like APS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://analytics.apsva.us/public/equity/aps_membership.html

Look at the numbers. They are nowhere near half the students

I'm hoping this comment was a matter of just being lazy and not agenda based. Not every kid in APS is "identified" officially as gifted, especially after APS essentially allowed any kid to do gifted lessons. The process can be embarrassing (self promotion) and a bit humiliating when you see the average kids who were allowed to join the gifted cadre after yours scored at the top or off the charts and was still made to feel inadequate during the process. Every officially identified kid is not gifted, many are far from it based upon experience and it becomes more obvious year-on-year. But once you're identified you can't be un-identified.

Look at the numbers in that chart to see what a joke APS is. First, they include the population from non-traditional high school programs that skew the data and there's no way to remove just them (not many students, but still...). Second, look at some of the subpopulations, especially "white." It's good to know that in a county where the running joke is that every parent thinks their kid is above-average, half the white moms think that theirs are super-above-above-average!!!

The real gifted numbers for us seemed to be closer to 2-5 total kids in elementary and fewer than 10% in ms/hs (but closer to 50% in practice) with actual gifted lessons taught at a slightly above grade level, which I think is still lower than what was considered "at grade level" 20 or 30 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://analytics.apsva.us/public/equity/aps_membership.html

Look at the numbers. They are nowhere near half the students

Our elementary works out to 37% of students identified as gifted and since almost no students are identified until the end of 1st or 2nd, that percentage is concentrated in the upper grades, bringing the total in the upper grades close to 50%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://analytics.apsva.us/public/equity/aps_membership.html

Look at the numbers. They are nowhere near half the students

Our elementary works out to 37% of students identified as gifted and since almost no students are identified until the end of 1st or 2nd, that percentage is concentrated in the upper grades, bringing the total in the upper grades close to 50%.

Statistically, 37% or 50% of kids cannot be outliers. Even in an area where there are lots of educated and smart people. Lots of kids can be advanced because they have access to good early childhood education, but that should not = "gifted," which is supposed to mean "has abilities so far beyond other kids they cannot be met in a regular classroom and require modifications or special intervention/teaching." By definition, a third or half of kids cannot be in that category. What everyone is concerned about is just enrichment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://analytics.apsva.us/public/equity/aps_membership.html

Look at the numbers. They are nowhere near half the students

Our elementary works out to 37% of students identified as gifted and since almost no students are identified until the end of 1st or 2nd, that percentage is concentrated in the upper grades, bringing the total in the upper grades close to 50%.

Statistically, 37% or 50% of kids cannot be outliers. Even in an area where there are lots of educated and smart people. Lots of kids can be advanced because they have access to good early childhood education, but that should not = "gifted," which is supposed to mean "has abilities so far beyond other kids they cannot be met in a regular classroom and require modifications or special intervention/teaching." By definition, a third or half of kids cannot be in that category. What everyone is concerned about is just enrichment.

It helps if you just understand that APS uses "gifted" to mean "students who are not adequately challenged by the standard curriculum." This is easily 30-50% of students. Parents are upset because APS used to try to find at least some ways to challenge these students. Post-pandemic, APS seems to have decided that providing enrichment for these students is inequitable, so all students have to get the same materials and opportunities. The AAC (formerly gifted resource teacher) only provides materials appropriate for *all* students and there will be no pull outs or separate opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://analytics.apsva.us/public/equity/aps_membership.html

Look at the numbers. They are nowhere near half the students

PP said between a quarter and half. That link says there are 9044 gift students in APS . About1/3 of APS students are labeled gifted.

[Anonymous]

The thing about APS is that a lot of parents supplement outside of school in order to challenge their kids more, especially in math.