What will happen to center schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canterbury Woods has 15% low income students, it's higher than a few nearby, but from the boundary map it's all single family homes, I am surprised the low income ratio is that high. I used to live nearby.

That might not reflect the neighborhood though, but rather students being bussed in from other schools.

It's all SFH but with that metric there's a lot of variation.

By "bussed in" you mean only AAP kids? Then the AAP class has lower SES than the general ed class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canterbury Woods has 15% low income students, it's higher than a few nearby, but from the boundary map it's all single family homes, I am surprised the low income ratio is that high. I used to live nearby.

That might not reflect the neighborhood though, but rather students being bussed in from other schools.

It's all SFH but with that metric there's a lot of variation.

It's also the DHOH center for the county, so students are bused in from all over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am in the market for a home and am wondering if I should avoid certain center schools in neighborhoods that are more mixed in terms of SES. If centers go away, wouldn't these schools then become weaker academically, if the student body was more representative of the neighborhood rather than also drawing on the brightest from other schools? Would the boundaries expand/change to bring in more local students?

Just because the school is a center doesn't mean that your kid will be part of the center. If you care about cohorts, look at the non-center classes. Also realize that if your kid is not level IV, a center is less likely to have robust offerings for level III kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canterbury Woods has 15% low income students, it's higher than a few nearby, but from the boundary map it's all single family homes, I am surprised the low income ratio is that high. I used to live nearby.

That might not reflect the neighborhood though, but rather students being bussed in from other schools.

It's all SFH but with that metric there's a lot of variation.

By "bussed in" you mean only AAP kids? Then the AAP class has lower SES than the general ed class?

Probably yes, since some of the AAP feeders are Title I schools. Also the DHOH students come from all over the entire county, and presumably have a FRL percentage more in line with the county as a whole.

This presentation is several years old, but on slides 37 and 38 shows that in-boundary Canterbury Woods students is 6% free and reduced lunch, whereas the students actually attending Canterbury Woods are 15% free and reduced lunch. The situation is probably the same now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canterbury Woods has 15% low income students, it's higher than a few nearby, but from the boundary map it's all single family homes, I am surprised the low income ratio is that high. I used to live nearby.

That might not reflect the neighborhood though, but rather students being bussed in from other schools.

It's all SFH but with that metric there's a lot of variation.

By "bussed in" you mean only AAP kids? Then the AAP class has lower SES than the general ed class?

Probably yes, since some of the AAP feeders are Title I schools. Also the DHOH students come from all over the entire county, and presumably have a FRL percentage more in line with the county as a whole.

This presentation is several years old, but on slides 37 and 38 shows that in-boundary Canterbury Woods students is 6% free and reduced lunch, whereas the students actually attending Canterbury Woods are 15% free and reduced lunch. The situation is probably the same now.

Forgot the presentation: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/B9N2DY660303/$file/Boundaries%20Research%20and%20Practice%20Presentation.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canterbury Woods has 15% low income students, it's higher than a few nearby, but from the boundary map it's all single family homes, I am surprised the low income ratio is that high. I used to live nearby.

That might not reflect the neighborhood though, but rather students being bussed in from other schools.

It's all SFH but with that metric there's a lot of variation.

By "bussed in" you mean only AAP kids? Then the AAP class has lower SES than the general ed class?

Probably yes, since some of the AAP feeders are Title I schools. Also the DHOH students come from all over the entire county, and presumably have a FRL percentage more in line with the county as a whole.

This presentation is several years old, but on slides 37 and 38 shows that in-boundary Canterbury Woods students is 6% free and reduced lunch, whereas the students actually attending Canterbury Woods are 15% free and reduced lunch. The situation is probably the same now.

Thank you, this is informative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in the market for a home and am wondering if I should avoid certain center schools in neighborhoods that are more mixed in terms of SES. If centers go away, wouldn't these schools then become weaker academically, if the student body was more representative of the neighborhood rather than also drawing on the brightest from other schools? Would the boundaries expand/change to bring in more local students?

I would say people are less likely to send their kids to the center school in the first instance here though. If you send us the area we could opine more. But for example, I know that most kids at Silverbrook stay at Silverbrook for Local level IV as opposed to going to Lorton ES as the center.

Canterbury Woods.

How are we defining CWES as mixed SES? Yes it's not the richest area, but there are literally no town homes or apartments that feed into the school.

Maybe mixed SES is not the best word and of course it's all relative.

CWES itself is not mixed SES. It's all high rank military and federal workers - fairly high SES. The population that comes in for AAP makes it mixed SES. If AAP were to go away, CWES would be a very homogenous place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in the market for a home and am wondering if I should avoid certain center schools in neighborhoods that are more mixed in terms of SES. If centers go away, wouldn't these schools then become weaker academically, if the student body was more representative of the neighborhood rather than also drawing on the brightest from other schools? Would the boundaries expand/change to bring in more local students?

I would say people are less likely to send their kids to the center school in the first instance here though. If you send us the area we could opine more. But for example, I know that most kids at Silverbrook stay at Silverbrook for Local level IV as opposed to going to Lorton ES as the center.

Canterbury Woods.

How are we defining CWES as mixed SES? Yes it's not the richest area, but there are literally no town homes or apartments that feed into the school.

Ok, playing devils advocate for a moment. I have scoured the home listings for the past couple of years and I notice a big diff between houses listed in Wakefield ES and Canterbury Woods zones. Is this because only certain homes are being listed or is there a big difference? Yes, of course, when we are comparing to FCPS at large CBWES is not "mixed SES" but relatively speaking there seems to be a non-trivial difference between these two school zones (or is that perception distorted by the housing market?)

Maybe mixed SES is not the best word and of course it's all relative.

CWES itself is not mixed SES. It's all high rank military and federal workers - fairly high SES. The population that comes in for AAP makes it mixed SES. If AAP were to go away, CWES would be a very homogenous place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in the market for a home and am wondering if I should avoid certain center schools in neighborhoods that are more mixed in terms of SES. If centers go away, wouldn't these schools then become weaker academically, if the student body was more representative of the neighborhood rather than also drawing on the brightest from other schools? Would the boundaries expand/change to bring in more local students?

I would say people are less likely to send their kids to the center school in the first instance here though. If you send us the area we could opine more. But for example, I know that most kids at Silverbrook stay at Silverbrook for Local level IV as opposed to going to Lorton ES as the center.

Canterbury Woods.

How are we defining CWES as mixed SES? Yes it's not the richest area, but there are literally no town homes or apartments that feed into the school.

Maybe mixed SES is not the best word and of course it's all relative.

CWES itself is not mixed SES. It's all high rank military and federal workers - fairly high SES. The population that comes in for AAP makes it mixed SES. If AAP were to go away, CWES would be a very homogenous place.

I see a big difference in the house listings in the CWES zone vs Wakefield ES, and I've gone to showings near CWES and I found the neighborhood not very attractive. But that might just be a bad sample and a function of the messed up housing market?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in the market for a home and am wondering if I should avoid certain center schools in neighborhoods that are more mixed in terms of SES. If centers go away, wouldn't these schools then become weaker academically, if the student body was more representative of the neighborhood rather than also drawing on the brightest from other schools? Would the boundaries expand/change to bring in more local students?

I would say people are less likely to send their kids to the center school in the first instance here though. If you send us the area we could opine more. But for example, I know that most kids at Silverbrook stay at Silverbrook for Local level IV as opposed to going to Lorton ES as the center.

Canterbury Woods.

How are we defining CWES as mixed SES? Yes it's not the richest area, but there are literally no town homes or apartments that feed into the school.

Maybe mixed SES is not the best word and of course it's all relative.

CWES itself is not mixed SES. It's all high rank military and federal workers - fairly high SES. The population that comes in for AAP makes it mixed SES. If AAP were to go away, CWES would be a very homogenous place.

I see a big difference in the house listings in the CWES zone vs Wakefield ES, and I've gone to showings near CWES and I found the neighborhood not very attractive. But that might just be a bad sample and a function of the messed up housing market?

OK, but the not nice houses in Canterbury Woods itself are still listed for 800K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When looking at things like Great schools you should definitely consider that schools with an AAP center have somewhat artificially inflated scores due to the kids bussed in for the center scoring well on the SOLs.

I get that although I wouldn't call it "artificial" in the sense that they do attend the school and their scores are valid. The problem is only if they suddenly no longer attend the school...

I consider it artificial in that I think my kid would get those scores regardless of whether they attended the center school so those scores could’ve just as easily been attributed to the base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in the market for a home and am wondering if I should avoid certain center schools in neighborhoods that are more mixed in terms of SES. If centers go away, wouldn't these schools then become weaker academically, if the student body was more representative of the neighborhood rather than also drawing on the brightest from other schools? Would the boundaries expand/change to bring in more local students?

I would say people are less likely to send their kids to the center school in the first instance here though. If you send us the area we could opine more. But for example, I know that most kids at Silverbrook stay at Silverbrook for Local level IV as opposed to going to Lorton ES as the center.

Canterbury Woods.

How are we defining CWES as mixed SES? Yes it's not the richest area, but there are literally no town homes or apartments that feed into the school.

Maybe mixed SES is not the best word and of course it's all relative.

CWES itself is not mixed SES. It's all high rank military and federal workers - fairly high SES. The population that comes in for AAP makes it mixed SES. If AAP were to go away, CWES would be a very homogenous place.

I see a big difference in the house listings in the CWES zone vs Wakefield ES, and I've gone to showings near CWES and I found the neighborhood not very attractive. But that might just be a bad sample and a function of the messed up housing market?

OK, but the not nice houses in Canterbury Woods itself are still listed for 800K.

That is a good point but that brings us back to the fact that CBWES is a center. This affects the home values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When looking at things like Great schools you should definitely consider that schools with an AAP center have somewhat artificially inflated scores due to the kids bussed in for the center scoring well on the SOLs.

I get that although I wouldn't call it "artificial" in the sense that they do attend the school and their scores are valid. The problem is only if they suddenly no longer attend the school...

I consider it artificial in that I think my kid would get those scores regardless of whether they attended the center school so those scores could’ve just as easily been attributed to the base.

In general, cohort/peer group does have an effect. Being surrounded by bright, academically-minded peers is different than being surrounded by peers who are uninterested in academics. Maybe not for your DC but for many kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in the market for a home and am wondering if I should avoid certain center schools in neighborhoods that are more mixed in terms of SES. If centers go away, wouldn't these schools then become weaker academically, if the student body was more representative of the neighborhood rather than also drawing on the brightest from other schools? Would the boundaries expand/change to bring in more local students?

I would say people are less likely to send their kids to the center school in the first instance here though. If you send us the area we could opine more. But for example, I know that most kids at Silverbrook stay at Silverbrook for Local level IV as opposed to going to Lorton ES as the center.

Canterbury Woods.

How are we defining CWES as mixed SES? Yes it's not the richest area, but there are literally no town homes or apartments that feed into the school.

Maybe mixed SES is not the best word and of course it's all relative.

CWES itself is not mixed SES. It's all high rank military and federal workers - fairly high SES. The population that comes in for AAP makes it mixed SES. If AAP were to go away, CWES would be a very homogenous place.

I see a big difference in the house listings in the CWES zone vs Wakefield ES, and I've gone to showings near CWES and I found the neighborhood not very attractive. But that might just be a bad sample and a function of the messed up housing market?

OK, but the not nice houses in Canterbury Woods itself are still listed for 800K.

That is a good point but that brings us back to the fact that CBWES is a center. This affects the home values.

Maybe. I think the home values are mostly affected by it being an amazing commute location and proximity to just about everything. CWES being in the Woodson pyramid doesn't hurt. If AAP center status went away, I don't think it would mean much. There's already not much difference in the regular classes and the AAP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Avoid mixed SES if you can afford it. Period. Keep your eyes on middle and high school as well. One elementary school could feed into different middle/high schools. Get the best slice of the pyramid.

If you can't manage that, prioritize high school attendance over elementary. After all, it's just elementary school.

I heard just the opposite. Some even think you have much better odds for programs like TJ if you aren't at a feeder.