Jeff Selingo on people skipping "target schools"

[Anonymous]

I think it is great that people are skipping "target schools" and going to state flagships. Look where UMD is today. All the students from PHS, RMIB, Centennial, Blair, TJ etc - who got rejected from MIT just because they were a certain demographic and overrepresented (read Asian American and male), came to UMD and they have changed its ranking profoundly. In fact, there are more MIT caliber students in UMD than MIT itself because of UMD's size.

UMD is also providing the perks to attract these students. Merit scholarships and free tuition is one thing. But they have also provided ample opportunities to do research and internships in the college itself. A name brand college can give you leg up in life. But, a state flagship can also give you the same leg up if you save money and resume and skill building opportunities are given to you. As for the level of instruction? Pretty much similar. There are many perks to be in college park because it is located in a strategic location.

In the end, if these students are driving a brand new car and have cash in their retirement fund at 23 then good for them. Why pay $$$ for a good college education when you can get it for free?

[Anonymous]

Selingo is just trying to make enough $$ to continue sending his own kids to very expensive, private, brand name schools.

[Anonymous]

I understood what he said. He's basically saying that if kids can't get into the Ivy Plus they are "skipping over" the "second ring" of colleges (the next tier) maybe those ranked 25-50 say and then chasing merit at lower ranked colleges or honors colleges where they get a good experience and don't pay much at all.

It would have helped if he named names, but I understand why he didn't (hope he does for the book).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid got a substantial merit package at a SLAC in the T50-100 range and we could not justify the price difference with the higher ranked but not T20 schools. The gap was substantial.

+1 for us, with a budget of up to $40k, it was an in-state public or a school that gave substantial merit. Both kids only applied to reaches in-state (UVA for one, W&M for the other). The one who wanted the "big state U" experience focused on other in-state options, didn't love the OOS that gave some merit, and ended up at VT. The one that really preferred LACs didn't get into W&M but had plenty of safety options with LACs in the 60-80 ranking range that ended up costing less than W&M would have (although we'd have paid for W&M if she'd gotten in).

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of you are confusing what skip over schools are. Places like Haverford, Colby and Bates that other have mentioned above are reach schools since they are in the low double digit acceptance rates. Yes, they accept more people in ED round but those are really the athletes skewing the numbers. I think skip over schools are lower tiered than Haverford, etc.

[Anonymous]

So it’s surprising or newsworthy or forward-thinking to suggest that $200k families don’t/wont/can’t pay $400k for Villanova or Tulane?

[Anonymous]

It has been sort of that way, and also 1.5 to 2nd tier private schools like CMU Emory NYU USC Tufts BU BC Northeastern has been insanely popular, so no worries and nothing new.

[Anonymous]

he gives more detail

>>I’m reluctant to name names yet of these skip-over schools without fully absorbing the quantitative data, but think of privates just outside of the top 40 or 50 in the national rankings, outside the top 20 or 25 among liberal arts colleges, and publics in those tiers that don’t give out boatloads of merit aid, which makes their net price too high for some families.<<


I agree the phrasing is crazy, but I get the point. he means the schools many of us are skipping straight TO instead of the second tier T40-50 schools.

[Anonymous]

Does the full article give examples of these "skip over" schools? Something like Wake Forest or Syracuse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So it’s surprising or newsworthy or forward-thinking to suggest that $200k families don’t/wont/can’t pay $400k for Villanova or Tulane?

Agreed. Jeff Selling has nothing more to offer after he confirmed how unfair admissions are in the first book. Nothing new here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a higher income than that, and were just looking at LACs, but I agree that it's hard to justify full-pay for a school like Haverford, Colby, Bates, F&M, or Vassar, when you can get $30K/year or more in merit aid at many schools ranked in the 30-50 range. My kid ED'd at one of them and got merit aid. If he'd decided to ED at, say, Bates, and got in, we would have paid, but I'm feeling much better about paying a lot less for a school that is pretty much the same in quality.

I disagree with the concept that people are skipping "target schools." Many schools in that 30-50 range could not be considered safeties. They were targets for my kid (3.7UW, 1460 SAT) but still offer significant merit aid if accepted.

+1 My DD had similar stats which I know put the super selective LACs out of reach. Then the next tier down which would be reasonable reaches are too expensive for us. So she focused on the schools where the cost would come in comparable for what we pay for our other kid to go to a VA state school. So, her list was all safeties + W&M (waitlisted).

This was my kid's situation a few years back too (she got into W&M). But the good thing is all these schools mainly offer comparable educational quality (the professors have Phds from all similar institutions, the small class sizes mean they are adapting to individual students, the undergraduate focus leads to research opportunities for interested undergrads) and they have long had a cohort of high achieving kids who sought merit aid. So there are usually practices/programs/opportunities that have developed around the kids who want more opportunities/challenge. On the flip side, a high achieving kid who spins out in college for whatever reason will likely limp along fine with the level of support at one of these schools too and get the degree and a reasonable GPA whereas in a more competitive place they may do worse/take longer at greater expense.
Of course, the more kids that take this route may make merit aid more competitive over time...but many people are more concerned with perceived status than lived reality during the college app time so hopefully it won't become too popular an option (at least not before my next kid likely takes the same approach!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So it’s surprising or newsworthy or forward-thinking to suggest that $200k families don’t/wont/can’t pay $400k for Villanova or Tulane?

Yes, because just a year ago those schools didn’t cost entirely that much. Tipping point reached.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my kids list was fully this:

Ivy plus
Good matches that offered merit, including international schools.

In the end, he really had a hard time deciding btw the full pay ivy plus and the merit at Denison (with money for grad school). But had he had a full pay middlebury or full pay Colby or full pay BC option, he would have scratched those without a second thought. Which is why he didn't bother.

The only thing is you really have to show a lot of interest and/or don't pick schools known to yield. Or have an international school you feel good about. Or you could end up with nothing, I guess.

What did he choose?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it’s surprising or newsworthy or forward-thinking to suggest that $200k families don’t/wont/can’t pay $400k for Villanova or Tulane?

Yes, because just a year ago those schools didn’t cost entirely that much. Tipping point reached.

Yes. Also test-optional makes these schools much less attractive. It’s one thing to stretch, financially, when telling yourself that your kid will be among his intellectual peers. Iron sharpens iron and all that. But if only 15% of students are reporting scores … what are you paying for, again? You can get a mix of students, including some very strong ones, at the flagship.

[Anonymous]

I think this is part of the reason the Northwestern SLACs have become so popular. They traditionally were well-regarded and have healthy endowments, but served primarily a west coast student body. They have the financial resources to be generous with merit but they don’t rank as highly (mostly IMO because ranking factors have traditionally favored east coast schools, not because of education quality). I’ve never seen as many east coast kids looking at Whitman, Lewis & Clark, Puget Sound, etc. as I have recently.