IBM issues a RTO for managers and executives - but they have no offices

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is a crappy employee.

My friends Dad worked at IBM his whole career and was near the Melville Long Island office and he had to move locations.

He picked the location he wanted to retire at and located there and company was generous with moving costs.

Raleigh is a wonderful location, great weather and lower cost of living and some great instate schools.

Poughkeepsie is a wonderful location, amazing schools, very cute area. Suburb of NYC. You can zoom into Manhattan on the train or hop in car head upstate quickly for sking and fall foliage

OP - how is he a crappy employee? Presumably your friends dad worked for IBM back in the 80s. My BIL has worked for IBM starting in the 2000s and never once had to go into an office. So its not like a return to pre-covid office. There has never been an office. The bait and switch seems ridiculous.

Sales as a career is much high profile now then it was 20 years ago. It was a bit of a joke — look at the Office for example, but with the internet and social media, it became more widely known that sales make a TON of money even more than engineers and often doctors.

So suddenly everyone wants to become a sales person, and lots more high caliber employees who may have gone into politics, or academia or what not suddenly see the easy money waiting for someone with charisma and smarts.

[Anonymous]

While I think the mandate is terrible, if he is as highly paid as you say, then he can go into the office the 3 days and then fly back home. Right?

[Anonymous]

I've Been Misled!(IBM)

[Anonymous]

He needs to play IBM's game for 6-12 months until they get rid of enough head count and liquidate some of their crappier regional commercial RE.

Tell him to fly up to Westchester airport on Monday AM and fly back home Wednesday PM. Three days in the office. It's a box checking exercise.

All these companies will relax RTO policies once they've brought down their costs and offloaded some of their CRE. They want to see who is loyal to the company and will bite the bullet. If he's well compensated and in the latter half of his career, he should figure out how to make it work.

I guarantee it will be a better and more flexible landscape in 12 months once they get rid of some deadweight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is a crappy employee.

My friends Dad worked at IBM his whole career and was near the Melville Long Island office and he had to move locations.

He picked the location he wanted to retire at and located there and company was generous with moving costs.

Raleigh is a wonderful location, great weather and lower cost of living and some great instate schools.

Poughkeepsie is a wonderful location, amazing schools, very cute area. Suburb of NYC. You can zoom into Manhattan on the train or hop in car head upstate quickly for sking and fall foliage

Did your friend's dad have a wife with a career?

Yes a SAHM. But the OP wife is remote which is same thing relocation wise

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - it seems short sighted that they are willing to lose a significant number of high paying (and high producing) managers and executives in order to save money. My BIL makes a lot of money but he also is one of the highest generating managers for IBM in what he sells. He routinely makes 100-150% of his quota each quarter and so does his team.

He is going to walk if they force him to go to one of those offices since he lives nowhere near any of those offices and is not willing to relocate his whole family. He has spoken with his team of 15 and of those 15 approximately 75% said they will leave as well. Seems sort of ridiculous to me but I guess IBM is willing to take that risk.

He can walk but the grass isn't greener on the other side. Majority of companies are now starting down the RTO path.

OP - totally agree but my sister (his wife) works for a partner of IBM and they don't have a RTO and she makes WAY more than he does. He would be recruited quickly because he is VERY good at his job. My sisters office only has one headquarters in Florida. All of the sales people are spread out across the country and then travel to see clients when they need to. Otherwise they work from home.

A lot of companies have retracted on RTO over the last few years. No guarantee that your sisters employer doesn't get acquired which could lead to a policy change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is a crappy employee.

My friends Dad worked at IBM his whole career and was near the Melville Long Island office and he had to move locations.

He picked the location he wanted to retire at and located there and company was generous with moving costs.

Raleigh is a wonderful location, great weather and lower cost of living and some great instate schools.

Poughkeepsie is a wonderful location, amazing schools, very cute area. Suburb of NYC. You can zoom into Manhattan on the train or hop in car head upstate quickly for sking and fall foliage

Did your friend's dad have a wife with a career?

Yes a SAHM. But the OP wife is remote which is same thing relocation wise

A SAHM and a remote worker are two very different things - IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - it seems short sighted that they are willing to lose a significant number of high paying (and high producing) managers and executives in order to save money. My BIL makes a lot of money but he also is one of the highest generating managers for IBM in what he sells. He routinely makes 100-150% of his quota each quarter and so does his team.

He is going to walk if they force him to go to one of those offices since he lives nowhere near any of those offices and is not willing to relocate his whole family. He has spoken with his team of 15 and of those 15 approximately 75% said they will leave as well. Seems sort of ridiculous to me but I guess IBM is willing to take that risk.

He can walk but the grass isn't greener on the other side. Majority of companies are now starting down the RTO path.

OP - totally agree but my sister (his wife) works for a partner of IBM and they don't have a RTO and she makes WAY more than he does. He would be recruited quickly because he is VERY good at his job. My sisters office only has one headquarters in Florida. All of the sales people are spread out across the country and then travel to see clients when they need to. Otherwise they work from home.

A lot of companies have retracted on RTO over the last few years. No guarantee that your sisters employer doesn't get acquired which could lead to a policy change.

OP here - yes that is true. But most RTO is due to the fact that the company has empty office space they need to fill. My sister has never been in a job where her company had any office space. They have always worked from home (when not on the road).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - it seems short sighted that they are willing to lose a significant number of high paying (and high producing) managers and executives in order to save money. My BIL makes a lot of money but he also is one of the highest generating managers for IBM in what he sells. He routinely makes 100-150% of his quota each quarter and so does his team.

He is going to walk if they force him to go to one of those offices since he lives nowhere near any of those offices and is not willing to relocate his whole family. He has spoken with his team of 15 and of those 15 approximately 75% said they will leave as well. Seems sort of ridiculous to me but I guess IBM is willing to take that risk.

He can walk but the grass isn't greener on the other side. Majority of companies are now starting down the RTO path.

OP - totally agree but my sister (his wife) works for a partner of IBM and they don't have a RTO and she makes WAY more than he does. He would be recruited quickly because he is VERY good at his job. My sisters office only has one headquarters in Florida. All of the sales people are spread out across the country and then travel to see clients when they need to. Otherwise they work from home.

A lot of companies have retracted on RTO over the last few years. No guarantee that your sisters employer doesn't get acquired which could lead to a policy change.

OP here - yes that is true. But most RTO is due to the fact that the company has empty office space they need to fill. My sister has never been in a job where her company had any office space. They have always worked from home (when not on the road).

You seem really invested in your BIL career...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - it seems short sighted that they are willing to lose a significant number of high paying (and high producing) managers and executives in order to save money. My BIL makes a lot of money but he also is one of the highest generating managers for IBM in what he sells. He routinely makes 100-150% of his quota each quarter and so does his team.

He is going to walk if they force him to go to one of those offices since he lives nowhere near any of those offices and is not willing to relocate his whole family. He has spoken with his team of 15 and of those 15 approximately 75% said they will leave as well. Seems sort of ridiculous to me but I guess IBM is willing to take that risk.

He can walk but the grass isn't greener on the other side. Majority of companies are now starting down the RTO path.

OP - totally agree but my sister (his wife) works for a partner of IBM and they don't have a RTO and she makes WAY more than he does. He would be recruited quickly because he is VERY good at his job. My sisters office only has one headquarters in Florida. All of the sales people are spread out across the country and then travel to see clients when they need to. Otherwise they work from home.

A lot of companies have retracted on RTO over the last few years. No guarantee that your sisters employer doesn't get acquired which could lead to a policy change.

OP here - yes that is true. But most RTO is due to the fact that the company has empty office space they need to fill. My sister has never been in a job where her company had any office space. They have always worked from home (when not on the road).

You seem really invested in your BIL career...

I think the OP might be Two Jobs Guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - it seems short sighted that they are willing to lose a significant number of high paying (and high producing) managers and executives in order to save money. My BIL makes a lot of money but he also is one of the highest generating managers for IBM in what he sells. He routinely makes 100-150% of his quota each quarter and so does his team.

He is going to walk if they force him to go to one of those offices since he lives nowhere near any of those offices and is not willing to relocate his whole family. He has spoken with his team of 15 and of those 15 approximately 75% said they will leave as well. Seems sort of ridiculous to me but I guess IBM is willing to take that risk.

He can walk but the grass isn't greener on the other side. Majority of companies are now starting down the RTO path.

OP - totally agree but my sister (his wife) works for a partner of IBM and they don't have a RTO and she makes WAY more than he does. He would be recruited quickly because he is VERY good at his job. My sisters office only has one headquarters in Florida. All of the sales people are spread out across the country and then travel to see clients when they need to. Otherwise they work from home.

A lot of companies have retracted on RTO over the last few years. No guarantee that your sisters employer doesn't get acquired which could lead to a policy change.

OP here - yes that is true. But most RTO is due to the fact that the company has empty office space they need to fill. My sister has never been in a job where her company had any office space. They have always worked from home (when not on the road).

You seem really invested in your BIL career...

I think the OP might be Two Jobs Guy.

OP here - haha no I am not. Jeff can confirm. I didn't even read the 2 job guy thread.

I am very close with my sister (we talk multiple times a day) and she tells me this stuff because she is stressed about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - it seems short sighted that they are willing to lose a significant number of high paying (and high producing) managers and executives in order to save money. My BIL makes a lot of money but he also is one of the highest generating managers for IBM in what he sells. He routinely makes 100-150% of his quota each quarter and so does his team.

He is going to walk if they force him to go to one of those offices since he lives nowhere near any of those offices and is not willing to relocate his whole family. He has spoken with his team of 15 and of those 15 approximately 75% said they will leave as well. Seems sort of ridiculous to me but I guess IBM is willing to take that risk.

He can walk but the grass isn't greener on the other side. Majority of companies are now starting down the RTO path.

OP - totally agree but my sister (his wife) works for a partner of IBM and they don't have a RTO and she makes WAY more than he does. He would be recruited quickly because he is VERY good at his job. My sisters office only has one headquarters in Florida. All of the sales people are spread out across the country and then travel to see clients when they need to. Otherwise they work from home.

A lot of companies have retracted on RTO over the last few years. No guarantee that your sisters employer doesn't get acquired which could lead to a policy change.

OP here - yes that is true. But most RTO is due to the fact that the company has empty office space they need to fill. My sister has never been in a job where her company had any office space. They have always worked from home (when not on the road).

You seem really invested in your BIL career...

I think the OP might be Two Jobs Guy.

OP here - haha no I am not. Jeff can confirm. I didn't even read the 2 job guy thread.

I am very close with my sister (we talk multiple times a day) and she tells me this stuff because she is stressed about it.

No idea why she is stressed -- she makes more money, they clearly are wealthy if he has been a top salesman at IBM for 2 decades, and able to live remotely so didn't have to buy for short commute that 99% of us plebes have to do. And she thinks he will be recruited by her company in a jif, so she really needs perspective about "stressful"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - it seems short sighted that they are willing to lose a significant number of high paying (and high producing) managers and executives in order to save money. My BIL makes a lot of money but he also is one of the highest generating managers for IBM in what he sells. He routinely makes 100-150% of his quota each quarter and so does his team.

He is going to walk if they force him to go to one of those offices since he lives nowhere near any of those offices and is not willing to relocate his whole family. He has spoken with his team of 15 and of those 15 approximately 75% said they will leave as well. Seems sort of ridiculous to me but I guess IBM is willing to take that risk.

He can walk but the grass isn't greener on the other side. Majority of companies are now starting down the RTO path.

RTO is over. We're doing what we're doing and that's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He is a crappy employee.

My friends Dad worked at IBM his whole career and was near the Melville Long Island office and he had to move locations.

He picked the location he wanted to retire at and located there and company was generous with moving costs.

Raleigh is a wonderful location, great weather and lower cost of living and some great instate schools.

Poughkeepsie is a wonderful location, amazing schools, very cute area. Suburb of NYC. You can zoom into Manhattan on the train or hop in car head upstate quickly for sking and fall foliage

Your friend’s dad probably worked for IBM when lifetime employment was their policy. They moved people around to different locations, but they wouldn’t let someone go without a cause. It changed in the 90s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - it seems short sighted that they are willing to lose a significant number of high paying (and high producing) managers and executives in order to save money. My BIL makes a lot of money but he also is one of the highest generating managers for IBM in what he sells. He routinely makes 100-150% of his quota each quarter and so does his team.

He is going to walk if they force him to go to one of those offices since he lives nowhere near any of those offices and is not willing to relocate his whole family. He has spoken with his team of 15 and of those 15 approximately 75% said they will leave as well. Seems sort of ridiculous to me but I guess IBM is willing to take that risk.

He can walk but the grass isn't greener on the other side. Majority of companies are now starting down the RTO path.

RTO is over. We're doing what we're doing and that's it.

I mean sure, RTO 100% is over, but many companies are abandoning 100% WFH. Look at InVision, a remote first company, poof!