Lack of religion = missing Jew?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP with the allegedly Hungarian Jewish great-grandmother again. I really think the DNA angle is the best to pursue. Figure out what % of your DNA would be provided by your target. If it's really small, and Jewish ancestry doesn't show up in another site's test, see if you can get an older direct-line relative to test since it doesn't seem to show up. My spouse has a small percentage that we believe could only come from a great-great grandfather. I think by reading up you can learn whether or not you should be finding DNA evidence.

Regarding connecting with a heritage, sometimes it's valuable to consider that people moved to America to get away from their impoverished village roots, the religious strictures of their communities, etc. Even if you can learn about aspects of your cultural heritage, without documentation, you'll have no idea how they felt about it or which practices they followed. All we have left in our family is an alleged fondness for matzohs.

Good luck with your search and hope you will embrace whatever the true story turns out to be. I have found quite a bit about a previously unknown great-grandparent through genealogical research over the past few years.

Well not to put to fine a point on it, but Jewish immigrants fled to the US to escspe antisemitism, and then assimilated to avoid it in the US. So it’s not that they wanted to leave the old world behind, but that they were unsafe as Jews. In the days when there were still college admissions restrictions and restrictive housing covenants against Jews, many chose to leave the identity behind.

[Anonymous]

My family is the sort that imported Jewish heiresses from the States to bolster their tottering aristocratic finances in their European country - a la Downton Abbey. In return, said heiress had a title and lived in a castle, and her kids had a guaranteed lineage.

So yes, I know I've got Jewish ancestry. But everyone was required to be Catholic with a capital C.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with the allegedly Hungarian Jewish great-grandmother again. I really think the DNA angle is the best to pursue. Figure out what % of your DNA would be provided by your target. If it's really small, and Jewish ancestry doesn't show up in another site's test, see if you can get an older direct-line relative to test since it doesn't seem to show up. My spouse has a small percentage that we believe could only come from a great-great grandfather. I think by reading up you can learn whether or not you should be finding DNA evidence.

Regarding connecting with a heritage, sometimes it's valuable to consider that people moved to America to get away from their impoverished village roots, the religious strictures of their communities, etc. Even if you can learn about aspects of your cultural heritage, without documentation, you'll have no idea how they felt about it or which practices they followed. All we have left in our family is an alleged fondness for matzohs.

Good luck with your search and hope you will embrace whatever the true story turns out to be. I have found quite a bit about a previously unknown great-grandparent through genealogical research over the past few years.

Well not to put to fine a point on it, but Jewish immigrants fled to the US to escspe antisemitism, and then assimilated to avoid it in the US. So it’s not that they wanted to leave the old world behind, but that they were unsafe as Jews. In the days when there were still college admissions restrictions and restrictive housing covenants against Jews, many chose to leave the identity behind.

PP above again. I definitely don't want to downplay anti-Semitism as a factor. But OP was also reflecting above on a Catholic to Protestant transfer. So, my remarks were more directed to the title of the post: "Lacking Religion = Missing Jew". I mentioned the circa 1900s freethought movement because I do think we should allow for the possibility that immigrants didn't care about preserving their Old World religious identity/were not believers as well as the possibility that they wanted to hide/erase their heritage to avoid persecution. That certainly seems true of the Czech Freethinker community in Chicago.

I have been researching non-Jewish Slovak
genealogy for a few years, and it's quite common to read testimonies from Boomer (first through third gen) Americans explaining that their Slovak immigrant relatives didn't value or explain their Old Country roots because they had escaped grinding rural poverty and weren't interested in dwelling on it. Remember, back then, it was more taboo to talk about negative experiences, personal trauma, etc.

So that's the spirit behind my comments above. From what little I know (and I intend to do more digging), that branch of my family didn't care at all about giving up their Jewish heritage.

By the way, I recommend Lara's Jewnealogy Blog for anyone who wants inspiration on how to research Old World Jewish records and to learn to analyze Ashkenazi DNA issues. Lara's writeups are really interesting and can give ideas on how to pursue one's own research by example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you did a DNA test and it didn't show Ashkenazi it's very unlikely they were Jewish.

We did 23 and me for my mother’s side. My husband is 50% Ashkenazi Jew but his family is 100% non-religious so it’s not part of his identity. 23 and me did show that he passed down the Tay Sachs genetic defect to our kids so that was really helpful.

[Anonymous]

Just do 23&Me

My wife (raised Lutheran) found out she had 33% Ashkenazi ancestry. Big surprise until upon further research she found out late Grandfather was adopted as a baby by Lutheran family. Adopted from Chicago and wife found Jewish distant relatives.

[Anonymous]

Jews came to the US to celebrate being Jewish and to practice their faith openly. There were booming Jewish communities across the United States from the 19th century onward, sending letters back to the home country encouraging people to come to the US. The antisemitism they encountered was, by the standards of the old world, quite mild. You may have been excluded from clubs but people didn't burn down your houses or lead pogroms in your neighborhoods. The college antisemitism was mainly at the Ivies, not across the board and not the land grant universities. And the US did reward Jews with tremendous prosperity through their hard work and Jews soon established a political presence as well, with Louis Brandeis appointed to SCOTUS in 1916. Jews have never had a reason not to be proud of being Jewish in the United States, outside of perhaps a handful of social climbing people but even that would be pretty limited.

The idea people would emigrate to the US to specifically hide their Jewish ancestry flies against documented history. It doesn't rule out an individual who didn't care about their Jewish heritage and was an atheist leaving behind their Jewish heritage as part of starting a new life. They may very well have been leaving behind previous marriages and unhappy family lives. People had many stories and reasons for emigrating to start a new life. But I'd think hiding a Jewish heritage would be one of the weakest ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jews came to the US to celebrate being Jewish and to practice their faith openly. There were booming Jewish communities across the United States from the 19th century onward, sending letters back to the home country encouraging people to come to the US. The antisemitism they encountered was, by the standards of the old world, quite mild. You may have been excluded from clubs but people didn't burn down your houses or lead pogroms in your neighborhoods. The college antisemitism was mainly at the Ivies, not across the board and not the land grant universities. And the US did reward Jews with tremendous prosperity through their hard work and Jews soon established a political presence as well, with Louis Brandeis appointed to SCOTUS in 1916. Jews have never had a reason not to be proud of being Jewish in the United States, outside of perhaps a handful of social climbing people but even that would be pretty limited.

The idea people would emigrate to the US to specifically hide their Jewish ancestry flies against documented history. It doesn't rule out an individual who didn't care about their Jewish heritage and was an atheist leaving behind their Jewish heritage as part of starting a new life. They may very well have been leaving behind previous marriages and unhappy family lives. People had many stories and reasons for emigrating to start a new life. But I'd think hiding a Jewish heritage would be one of the weakest ones.

I don’t know. My grandmother was flat-out fired from a job when they found out she was Jewish, in the 1930s. She didn’t speak about it much, but I know that they depended on the money and it must’ve been devastating emotionally. At that time Jews explicitly could not live in my current neighborhood, nor could they attend the school that my son attends.

Yes, there were no pogroms, but the burden was still there (balanced off to some extent by a vibrant community). You wrote “Jews have never had a reason not to be proud of being Jewish in the United States” - that’s true with regard to personal pride, but there were plenty of practical reasons to conceal Judaism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you be looking for from a reconnection? Have you done 23 & me or the like?

I don't know what I would be looking for. Maybe more understanding of who my family was before they "lost" their identity.

I have done 23 and me. Said what I expected, German, Danish, UK.

If you had Ashkenazi DNA that should have showed up in the results - I'm not sure if/how they test for Sephardim.

You could use Ancestry.com to see what you can track down. But also, if you are feeling a pull toward Judaism, I'd say explore it. Spend some time going to a reform synagogue - or talking to a rabbi. I think, especially now, you will be welcomed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with the allegedly Hungarian Jewish great-grandmother again. I really think the DNA angle is the best to pursue. Figure out what % of your DNA would be provided by your target. If it's really small, and Jewish ancestry doesn't show up in another site's test, see if you can get an older direct-line relative to test since it doesn't seem to show up. My spouse has a small percentage that we believe could only come from a great-great grandfather. I think by reading up you can learn whether or not you should be finding DNA evidence.

Regarding connecting with a heritage, sometimes it's valuable to consider that people moved to America to get away from their impoverished village roots, the religious strictures of their communities, etc. Even if you can learn about aspects of your cultural heritage, without documentation, you'll have no idea how they felt about it or which practices they followed. All we have left in our family is an alleged fondness for matzohs.

Good luck with your search and hope you will embrace whatever the true story turns out to be. I have found quite a bit about a previously unknown great-grandparent through genealogical research over the past few years.

Well not to put to fine a point on it, but Jewish immigrants fled to the US to escspe antisemitism, and then assimilated to avoid it in the US. So it’s not that they wanted to leave the old world behind, but that they were unsafe as Jews. In the days when there were still college admissions restrictions and restrictive housing covenants against Jews, many chose to leave the identity behind.

PP above again. I definitely don't want to downplay anti-Semitism as a factor. But OP was also reflecting above on a Catholic to Protestant transfer. So, my remarks were more directed to the title of the post: "Lacking Religion = Missing Jew". I mentioned the circa 1900s freethought movement because I do think we should allow for the possibility that immigrants didn't care about preserving their Old World religious identity/were not believers as well as the possibility that they wanted to hide/erase their heritage to avoid persecution. That certainly seems true of the Czech Freethinker community in Chicago.

I have been researching non-Jewish Slovak
genealogy for a few years, and it's quite common to read testimonies from Boomer (first through third gen) Americans explaining that their Slovak immigrant relatives didn't value or explain their Old Country roots because they had escaped grinding rural poverty and weren't interested in dwelling on it. Remember, back then, it was more taboo to talk about negative experiences, personal trauma, etc.

So that's the spirit behind my comments above. From what little I know (and I intend to do more digging), that branch of my family didn't care at all about giving up their Jewish heritage.

By the way, I recommend Lara's Jewnealogy Blog for anyone who wants inspiration on how to research Old World Jewish records and to learn to analyze Ashkenazi DNA issues. Lara's writeups are really interesting and can give ideas on how to pursue one's own research by example.

Thanks for the additional thoughts. Yes, I agree with you - it is anachronistic for us to believe that generations past were deeply attached to their old-world roots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My family is the sort that imported Jewish heiresses from the States to bolster their tottering aristocratic finances in their European country - a la Downton Abbey. In return, said heiress had a title and lived in a castle, and her kids had a guaranteed lineage.

So yes, I know I've got Jewish ancestry. But everyone was required to be Catholic with a capital C.

wow what a story!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My family is the sort that imported Jewish heiresses from the States to bolster their tottering aristocratic finances in their European country - a la Downton Abbey. In return, said heiress had a title and lived in a castle, and her kids had a guaranteed lineage.

So yes, I know I've got Jewish ancestry. But everyone was required to be Catholic with a capital C.

wow what a story!

Without fail Annoying French Lady shows up to talk about her family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jews came to the US to celebrate being Jewish and to practice their faith openly. There were booming Jewish communities across the United States from the 19th century onward, sending letters back to the home country encouraging people to come to the US. The antisemitism they encountered was, by the standards of the old world, quite mild. You may have been excluded from clubs but people didn't burn down your houses or lead pogroms in your neighborhoods. The college antisemitism was mainly at the Ivies, not across the board and not the land grant universities. And the US did reward Jews with tremendous prosperity through their hard work and Jews soon established a political presence as well, with Louis Brandeis appointed to SCOTUS in 1916. Jews have never had a reason not to be proud of being Jewish in the United States, outside of perhaps a handful of social climbing people but even that would be pretty limited.

The idea people would emigrate to the US to specifically hide their Jewish ancestry flies against documented history. It doesn't rule out an individual who didn't care about their Jewish heritage and was an atheist leaving behind their Jewish heritage as part of starting a new life. They may very well have been leaving behind previous marriages and unhappy family lives. People had many stories and reasons for emigrating to start a new life. But I'd think hiding a Jewish heritage would be one of the weakest ones.

It’s no so much hiding like being a crypto-jew in Spain, but just letting it fall by the wayside and not correct anyone who assumed otherwise, and yes, also to avoid antisemitism. This is a pretty fascinating book delving into one family’s history: https://www.amazon.com/Half-Jew-Daughters-Search-Familys-Buried/dp/068483250X

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you be looking for from a reconnection? Have you done 23 & me or the like?

I don't know what I would be looking for. Maybe more understanding of who my family was before they "lost" their identity.

I have done 23 and me. Said what I expected, German, Danish, UK.

If you had Ashkenazi DNA that should have showed up in the results - I'm not sure if/how they test for Sephardim.

You could use Ancestry.com to see what you can track down. But also, if you are feeling a pull toward Judaism, I'd say explore it. Spend some time going to a reform synagogue - or talking to a rabbi. I think, especially now, you will be welcomed.

From what I understand there is no way to test for Sephardim. My dad did 23 and me and even though he is 1/8th Spanish Jew (or so we've been told) it just shows up as Iberian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP again.

I recommend you Google the words Czech Freethinkers and also look at the Wikipedia article on "freethought".

The Wikipedia article has a Germany section.

This will help you understand some early 1900s movements that were reasonably well-known that involved atheism.

That both parties changed their names is pretty interesting. Could have been escaping debt, a bad marriage, anything.

That's interesting! My great grandparents made a large fortune as cattle farmers in Texas so the southern location may have played a role in the decision to be covert. I don't know that freethinking is something I could imagine being tolerated in Texas 1920s but maybe!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews came to the US to celebrate being Jewish and to practice their faith openly. There were booming Jewish communities across the United States from the 19th century onward, sending letters back to the home country encouraging people to come to the US. The antisemitism they encountered was, by the standards of the old world, quite mild. You may have been excluded from clubs but people didn't burn down your houses or lead pogroms in your neighborhoods. The college antisemitism was mainly at the Ivies, not across the board and not the land grant universities. And the US did reward Jews with tremendous prosperity through their hard work and Jews soon established a political presence as well, with Louis Brandeis appointed to SCOTUS in 1916. Jews have never had a reason not to be proud of being Jewish in the United States, outside of perhaps a handful of social climbing people but even that would be pretty limited.

The idea people would emigrate to the US to specifically hide their Jewish ancestry flies against documented history. It doesn't rule out an individual who didn't care about their Jewish heritage and was an atheist leaving behind their Jewish heritage as part of starting a new life. They may very well have been leaving behind previous marriages and unhappy family lives. People had many stories and reasons for emigrating to start a new life. But I'd think hiding a Jewish heritage would be one of the weakest ones.

It’s no so much hiding like being a crypto-jew in Spain, but just letting it fall by the wayside and not correct anyone who assumed otherwise, and yes, also to avoid antisemitism. This is a pretty fascinating book delving into one family’s history: https://www.amazon.com/Half-Jew-Daughters-Search-Familys-Buried/dp/068483250X

Also forgot to add - there are also plenty of intermarriage an adoption events than can result in a “lost” Jewish heritage. Like in my family - my great-grandfather according to long family tradition was Jewish and abandoned my great-grandmother when my grandfather was very young, leaving only a very distinctly Russian name. The rest of the family history was totally American Christian, with just the last name and maybe some curlier hair than standard passed down. (My brothers can definitely grow a nice Jewfro.) We definitely had more of a Jewish culture knowledge at home than was probably typical, always friends with the local reform rabbi, but 100% Catholic. DNA test shows 1/8 Ashkenazi. So this is one way a Jewish lineage disappears.