Better to make B's and C's than A's?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's been said that the A students work for the B students, the C students run the businesses, and the D students dedicate the buildings.

Now, just to be clear, this adage clearly doesn't apply in fields like medicine, engineering and, to a large extent, law, all of which are highly GPA-driven. You won't make it into the door of any med school or halfway decent law school if most of your grades aren't A's.

But in business majors, I think there's some truth to the C-students-rule-the-world theory. Although exceptions abound, students who get 4.0's tend to be follow-the-rules, color-inside-the-lines types who spend college with their nose in a book, refusing to take risks or buck the system. These traits are invaluable to a surgeon or an airline pilot, but in the business world, they often lead to becoming a yes-man who never rises above middle management as opposed to a trailblazer who runs the show.

Another problem with A students is that many of them have been told their whole lives by well-meaning parents and teachers that grades are king and as long as they keep those up, doors will open for them. Again, that's true if your dream is to be a doctor, but for business-minded students, prioritizing grades over socializing and networking can set you on a path to mediocrity. Take two business majors, a 4.0 library shut-in and a 2.9 fraternity president and intramural team captain, and check on them a decade after graduation. My money is on the frat god having the more successful career.[i]

So, what are everyone's thoughts? Is it possible we push kids to focus too much on grades, especially in fields where making top grades often comes at the expense of what actually matters for success?

You've set up a false dichotomy. The reality is the students who rule the world are the ones who have a 4.0 AND are fraternity president and intramural team captain.
Sure, there may be 4.0 shut-ins, but I don't know many team captains who aren't also good students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe a decade after graduation, who knows. But, try getting an internship during college with a 2.9 as a business major.

That's where the adage that OP is talking about comes from. If your dad was a D student with a building named after them, you will have a choice of internships

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe a decade after graduation, who knows. But, try getting an internship during college with a 2.9 as a business major.

The kid with the 2.9 GPA who is in the same fraternity or on the same lacrosse team as the CEO was will get the internship over the 4.0 kid every day. The 2.9 kid will also have a large group of friends similarly connected who will prove to be helpful throughout his career.

You do realize of course that like attracts like. The 2.9 GPA kid in the same fraternity as the CEO's kid...is also likely to be the kid with wealthy parents as well...because that fraternity is comprised of mainly wealthy kids.

I guess let's exclude kids where quite honestly...they could have a 0.5 GPA and will still do just fine in life because they literally can't fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe a decade after graduation, who knows. But, try getting an internship during college with a 2.9 as a business major.

The kid with the 2.9 GPA who is in the same fraternity or on the same lacrosse team as the CEO was will get the internship over the 4.0 kid every day. The 2.9 kid will also have a large group of friends similarly connected who will prove to be helpful throughout his career.

PP. My business kid has somewhere around a 3.3 as a junior at a school in the back end of the T100. Too much fraternity activity during freshman and sophomore years. He has finally buckled down and is getting much better grades this semester, but he is struggling to get an internship. His resume is likely not making it past GPA filters. Sure, his fraternity brothers will be there for him one day, but right now they too are struggling to get internships if they didn't study hard the first two years. Just saying, this is what it looks like on the ground, right now.

Yep. OP is relying too much on frat and the bro culture in thinking that a C student will get great internships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been said that the A students work for the B students, the C students run the businesses, and the D students dedicate the buildings.

Now, just to be clear, this adage clearly doesn't apply in fields like medicine, engineering and, to a large extent, law, all of which are highly GPA-driven. You won't make it into the door of any med school or halfway decent law school if most of your grades aren't A's.

But in business majors, I think there's some truth to the C-students-rule-the-world theory. Although exceptions abound, students who get 4.0's tend to be follow-the-rules, color-inside-the-lines types who spend college with their nose in a book, refusing to take risks or buck the system. These traits are invaluable to a surgeon or an airline pilot, but in the business world, they often lead to becoming a yes-man who never rises above middle management as opposed to a trailblazer who runs the show.

Another problem with A students is that many of them have been told their whole lives by well-meaning parents and teachers that grades are king and as long as they keep those up, doors will open for them. Again, that's true if your dream is to be a doctor, but for business-minded students, prioritizing grades over socializing and networking can set you on a path to mediocrity. Take two business majors, a 4.0 library shut-in and a 2.9 fraternity president and intramural team captain, and check on them a decade after graduation. My money is on the frat god having the more successful career.[i]

So, what are everyone's thoughts? Is it possible we push kids to focus too much on grades, especially in fields where making top grades often comes at the expense of what actually matters for success?

You've set up a false dichotomy. The reality is the students who rule the world are the ones who have a 4.0 AND are fraternity president and intramural team captain.
Sure, there may be 4.0 shut-ins, but I don't know many team captains who aren't also good students.

+1. The OP is all about survivor bias. If you look at all students in a cohort, the top 2-3% will be the cream of the crop a.k.a. "A students". The C or below students on the other hand will span the bottom 75%. Of course a few of them will be well connected, are really smart but don't care about education or have ADD, etc. and will end up being successful. That doesn't automatically imply that "C students are more successful than A students". "Some C students (a minuscule fraction) will be more successful that A students" is maybe the right adage, but that it loses its luster.

If anyone cares to do this, pull the names of the CEOs and founders of the top 50 companies and tabulate how many of them were C students vs. A students. You'll know the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's been said that the A students work for the B students, the C students run the businesses, and the D students dedicate the buildings.

Now, just to be clear, this adage clearly doesn't apply in fields like medicine, engineering and, to a large extent, law, all of which are highly GPA-driven. You won't make it into the door of any med school or halfway decent law school if most of your grades aren't A's.

But in business majors, I think there's some truth to the C-students-rule-the-world theory. Although exceptions abound, students who get 4.0's tend to be follow-the-rules, color-inside-the-lines types who spend college with their nose in a book, refusing to take risks or buck the system. These traits are invaluable to a surgeon or an airline pilot, but in the business world, they often lead to becoming a yes-man who never rises above middle management as opposed to a trailblazer who runs the show.

Another problem with A students is that many of them have been told their whole lives by well-meaning parents and teachers that grades are king and as long as they keep those up, doors will open for them. Again, that's true if your dream is to be a doctor, but for business-minded students, prioritizing grades over socializing and networking can set you on a path to mediocrity. Take two business majors, a 4.0 library shut-in and a 2.9 fraternity president and intramural team captain, and check on them a decade after graduation. My money is on the frat god having the more successful career.

So, what are everyone's thoughts? Is it possible we push kids to focus too much on grades, especially in fields where making top grades often comes at the expense of what actually matters for success?

Of course it's possible. Probable? No.

Literally the only person i know this holds true for failed out of college, though ultimately got through, a low tier (to people on this board) state school. Person was able to grad -even having failed at it initially- w/ no debt on the parents' dime. That allow an entry into a low level tech job right before the tech boom. At that point, jobs everywhere. Was able to move up quickly, save money (b/c no debt) and invest in tech stocks. Now, is person a hard worker now? Yes. Have they earned what they have? Yes. BUT. They had a lot of luck and parental help along the way.

[Anonymous]

Now, just to be clear, this adage clearly doesn't apply in fields like medicine, engineering and, to a large extent, law, all of which are highly GPA-driven. You won't make it into the door of any med school or halfway decent law school if most of your grades aren't A's.

Engineering? My husband has two masters in engineering from top tier engineering school, but definitely didn't get As in every higher level math and science course he took in college or grad school. There were some C+s in more advanced math and physics. Yes, the basic math and science courses should be As, but in the higher level ones, people outright failed and a C+ was an ok grade.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Please try your best to be a C student so that you'll be a boss. I can confirm this is 100% true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Please try your best to be a C student so that you'll be a boss. I can confirm this is 100% true.

Once you get to the work place, the ability to network and sell yourself matters as much as if not more than competence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe a decade after graduation, who knows. But, try getting an internship during college with a 2.9 as a business major.

The kid with the 2.9 GPA who is in the same fraternity or on the same lacrosse team as the CEO was will get the internship over the 4.0 kid every day. The 2.9 kid will also have a large group of friends similarly connected who will prove to be helpful throughout his career.

As much as some people would like it to be true -- this is no longer true at any "corporate" place. Big 4, Big law, Banking, S&P500. Now what would be true is that the kid with the 3.5 or 3.7 who has those connections gets the job over the 4.0. Connections still work but you have to be in the ballpark or it is a no go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A students are the ones getting into elite colleges, not the C students.

Also, the vast majority of C students are average in everything, both academically and in other areas. One can be an A student and still be risk takers, and leaders.

But, if you want to follow the adage, go right on ahead. Gives my A/B student a better shot at a better college.

I think the OP means in college. Anyone can make A's in high school. Certainly A's and B's.

NP...Sure but can they get Cs and Ds like MY daughter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A students are the ones getting into elite colleges, not the C students.

Also, the vast majority of C students are average in everything, both academically and in other areas. One can be an A student and still be risk takers, and leaders.

But, if you want to follow the adage, go right on ahead. Gives my A/B student a better shot at a better college.

Well. “C’s earn degrees,” you know.

[Anonymous]

This adage is from the 20th Century when a C was actually a good grade for a smart person, and an A was for hyper academic geniuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A students are the ones getting into elite colleges, not the C students.

Also, the vast majority of C students are average in everything, both academically and in other areas. One can be an A student and still be risk takers, and leaders.

But, if you want to follow the adage, go right on ahead. Gives my A/B student a better shot at a better college.

Well. “C’s earn degrees,” you know.

"D" is for degree.

[Anonymous]

By that idiotic logic you should tell your kid to flunk out entirely, given how so many tech billionaires and music megastars are drop-outs.

Or even better, given how the working poor disproportionately play the lottery and win the Mega Millions, maybe you should encourage your kid to seek out only the most menial jobs and live in a shack.