DC is hacking Internet gamesites - is this OK?

[Anonymous]

Thanks, this is helpful. He's been warned about credit cards, also about getting into paid sites and inappropriate sites.

He's probably ready for a bigger challenge, like writing his own really simple "game." He's written some simple programs that answer yes/no questions. It's starting to sound like a flat-out ban on anything he calls "hacking" may be in order, even if right now it's just simple cheats.

[Anonymous]

OP,
A vocabulary lesson seems in order, too, if he's calling something hacking that's not hacking. Hacking is illegal.

[Anonymous]

P.S. I'm the poster who has a child like this, and thinking back the peak of this was the end of sixth grade to the middle of Eighth Grade. By the end of Eighth Grade he was more of a responsible digital citizen. But I still check his emails! (Though texts are where the real reconn is!)

[Anonymous]

My gamer/lawyer husband asks if the games are multiplayer games or single person. If multiplayer, than he is cheating (like cheating in sports) and as Jeff said risks having his account deleted. If it is only a single player game, then it's less of a right/wrong thing but could still be a good lesson. It should be noted that some game developers do embed easter eggs which are hidden cheats put there by the developer. So if he's just accessing those, then while it is cheating it is also "allowed". DHs rule of thumb would be if the developer made the add-on code than you are OK, if not then its wrong.

You had mentioned Iphone apps. I saw a story recently that Google had created an easy application maker for its Android platform. It might be a quicker way to get him channeled into more legitimate use of his interests.
http://appinventor.googlelabs.com/about/

[Anonymous]

My husband sues hackers for a living and he says Jeff's advice is as good as any at this stage. But, you and he should be aware that if he ever writes and distributes hacks that let you play pay games for free, someone will come knocking on your door.

[Anonymous]

If his school has a Technology teacher, maybe it would be a good idea to reach out to him/her.

Your son could chat with the teacher, maybe help out in the computer lab with the younger kids or help install/review new programs. Or even just having a conversation with this person over an ice cream would be helpful.

Anything that would put him with a technology mentor type who could give him a different perspective about this should be helpful.

Remember that the more you control/protect/manage him at this age, the more creative he'll become about hiding what he's doing. And, trust me, as a parent of a kid "like this" and a previous middle school teacher, he'll find ways to get around your rules if he wants to!

[Anonymous]

8:41 Sorry but as the parent of a middle schooler I don't think that philosophy is ideal, you seem to be suggesting parents should lay off. (The more a parent does, etc.) My tack as a parent has been to learn as much as I can and then monitor as much as I can. So many parents don't know the basics. I didn't know I could check the History function until last year, for instance. When I catch my son, who's also a child "like this," I use it as ammo and tell him this demonstrates he's not ready to get more privileges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not okay! Make him stop NOW! Are these gambling sites? I don't know what the legal repercussions are, but many sites, including Facebook, have age and grade limits. Facebook users are supposed to be at least 13 AND in high school. I'm sure gambling sites are for those 18 and older. Do some research as to the legal implications.

Facebook is the least of the problems. ISP's can cancel your service - the entire account.

[Anonymous]

19:43, thanks so much for asking your gamer/lawyer husband. We will need to sit down and figure out what types of cheats he's been using, and who developed them. The Google app site is also a terrific idea and I'll show it to DC.

There is a technology teacher at DC's school, and having DC talk to the teacher is a good idea. As a supplement to us, not as a replacement.

Thanks, everybody.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like he's a candidate for the Geek Squad; both to learn and learn boundaries. The next DC course is August 16-18.

http://www.gssummeracademy.com/camps/dc2.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It started with the hacking software you can download from some sites. Now he's downloaded and is teaching himself Visual Basic so he can go to the next level.

My question is, how much of this is OK, and where does it start bordering on the illegal? We've explained that hacking into membership/paid sites is like stealing. We've also tried to channel this in positive directions, like writing iPhone apps, but that may be beyond his abilities (he just turned 12).

No, it is not all right. Hacking is illegal and he can be prosecuted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It started with the hacking software you can download from some sites. Now he's downloaded and is teaching himself Visual Basic so he can go to the next level.

My question is, how much of this is OK, and where does it start bordering on the illegal? We've explained that hacking into membership/paid sites is like stealing. We've also tried to channel this in positive directions, like writing iPhone apps, but that may be beyond his abilities (he just turned 12).

It isn't like stealing, it IS stealing. Make sure he understands that.

That said, it doesn't sound like he is actually hacking if he is going into free sites. It doesn't sound like you have a clear understanding yet of what he is doing. I'd suggest you sit down with him and have him show you exactly what he is doing. Consider installing software that will monitor (keystroke monitoring, for instance) exactly what he is doing. Learning VisualBasic is great, but perhaps a class or purchased software might be a better route. THere is a lot of trouble you can get into on the internet, and it sounds like his abilities outstrip yours, which means he'll be able to cover his tracks from you. (inadvertantly or on purpose)

Some of these responses sound a bit ignorant. First off, hacking doesn't necessary mean 'stealing'. It sounds to me his is simple 'exploring', not 'stealing'. Although, yes it is illegal what he is doing because he is gaining access to restricted areas (like breaking into someone's house, simply to look around).

BTW - There are paid ethical hackers out there. It is a very legitimate lucrative career in the network security field. If he started with downloading 'hacking software'; then most likely he was using 'script kiddie' software that already has the exploits built in. If he is now advancing to writing his own custom code using visual basic, then sounds like a VERY smart 12 year old. If I were you, I would look into legitimate ways he can channel his talent and enthusiasm in this field. Perhaps talk to his school about his programming skills and see if there is any available community volunteer work in network security. Also, make sure he is fully aware of the consequences of what he is doing (show him all the Google search results of 'teen hacker jailed').

Also, to the PP: if the parents aren't computer or network savvy, how exactly would they benefit from the keystroke monitoring software?

[Anonymous]

OP here. He was in fact using pre-scripted "cheats", which can be downloaded from numerous sites, to hack into online games. The move to visual basic also alarmed us.

We have interested him in writing iPhone apps. We got him two books on the subject and he's half-way through one of them already and is learning Objective C, the language. Also we've bought the app development software from Apple and he's written a mini "demonstration" app as described in one of the books. He is very smart, but more important, he's very persistent and tends to stick with things he's interested in.

We do understand the issues here and have explained them. We do plan to approach his teachers once school starts again. Without revealing where he goes to school, he has access to some teachers who are extremely tech-savvy. Hearing the same message from them should be very helpful.

[Anonymous]

"If his school has a Technology teacher, maybe it would be a good idea to reach out to him/her.

Your son could chat with the teacher, maybe help out in the computer lab with the younger kids or help install/review new programs. Or even just having a conversation with this person over an ice cream would be helpful.

Anything that would put him with a technology mentor type who could give him a different perspective about this should be helpful.

Remember that the more you control/protect/manage him at this age, the more creative he'll become about hiding what he's doing. And, trust me, as a parent of a kid "like this" and a previous middle school teacher, he'll find ways to get around your rules if he wants to! "

This type of operational thing would probably be boring to him if he likes the challenge of programming. You could seek out some good computer organizations or there may even be something in the computer security field aimed at young kids. Years ago when we caught college kid trying to hack into systems, we hired them and trained them to catch hackers and undertand malicious software to stop it. They turned out over the years to be some of the most talented and ethical staff.