Math equity nonsense LCPS
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Anonymous
Again, more lies that have already been debunked in countless earlier threads. VMPI was focused on blending algebra & geometry concepts. It never proposed to eliminate advanced math or acceleration. Calculus/IB were *always* included as possible paths. |
Anonymous
So how is it in many other countries around the world students are taking the equivalent of algebra 1 in 6th or 7th grades? It is most likely an integrated math course just called math but it contains all the concepts of algebra 1. Why is it that you think American students should wait until 8th or 9th? |
Anonymous
Interesting. Integrated math is great when other countries do it but then when VMPI brings it up then it’s horrible? |
Anonymous
I agree with the bolded. My DC took Algebra I in 7th and had one of the best math teachers in the Fairfax County. He did not water it down. Some parents complained that he was unnecessarily being too hard and had their kids drop the class. But in hind sight, he was doing them a big favor. My DC is in high school and is doing well Algebra 2. DC says about a third of the class seems to struggle and the teacher has to review Algebra I topics often to get students caught up. |
Anonymous
| Lots of 9th graders at our HS struggle in Algebra 2 after taking Algebra 1 in 7th. The honors class is a tiny fraction of students who took A1 in 7th. |
Anonymous
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High school math teacher again. I just knew that some people would come on and tell me that THEIR kid is doing very well in high school after taking Algebra i in 6th grade, so take that, teacher!
Sigh... I will reword my statement because there are always exceptions. I should have said the MOST 6th and 7th graders shouldn't be taking Algebra, because they don't understand the concepts well and don't learn the skills well, so the course has to be watered down. (Note: another reason for the "watering down" is so the teacher doesn't end up in trouble for lots of low grades.) Of course there ARE exceptions, and SOME students, the really good math students, will do well. But trust me, the majority don't. They get pushed by their parents' expectations to take classes they aren't ready for brain-maturity wise or work-ethic wise, and they don't do well and both they - and we - suffer the consequences ("You aren't a very good teacher, are you, because my Larlo got a D- in Algebra!! I'm going to talk to the superintendent!!) And as for the argument about Asian countries doing so much better - sheesh, not again. it's a different culture, folks. Really it is. Asia is not the USA where political correctness reigns, even in a math class (see California Math Framework); and most anyone who wants to take Algebra in 6th grade gets in, ready and prepared or not; and we can't teach to the rigor needed because the little darlings' feelings might get hurt - or worse, their parents', because they can't boast about their kid being in Calculus in 10th grade; and we have 10+ IEPS in a class of 30 with way too many various and distracting behaviors and way too many accommodations and modifications to handle and still teach effectively; and not enough support from administrators...the list goes on and on. Give me 6th grade algebra classes where the kids are prepared for that level of math; have the interest, study habits, work ethic, and support from their parents to succeed; a lack of distracting behaviors and only enough modifications and accommodations that it doesn't stop either me from teaching or the rest of the class from learning; if you give me that class, I could produce the type and number of math students the Asian school are producing, too. Believe me or not, as you choose. I've been teaching a long time and am considered a very effective and well liked teacher. I'm telling you that for the vast majority of kids, taking Algebra in 6th or 7th grade and learning the math well enough to have the knowledge base and skill level to succeed in upper level math courses without extensive review and lots of extra help just isn't happening - and it's getting worse as the years pass. |
Anonymous
Thank you for your insight and experience. I do want to follow up on one thing, though. You state: most anyone who wants to take Algebra in 6th grade gets in. In our district at least, I know several parents and students who wanted to but didn't get in. I personally felt the standards set to get in were too low, so I'm on your side with this. However, I also observed that teachers and administrators had no problem rejecting parents' requests for their child to get in when it didn't meet the benchmark. (Actually, in general, I am observing that administrators care very little about parents' input altogether - at least it appears to me this way. They certainly didn't listen to my input when I complained about the elementary school math curriculum. Maybe there are parents with leverage somewhere? What does it actually take for an administrator to listen to you? Do you have to donate to the school board campaigns?) Moreover, with respect to grades, our school district has a clear policy that you're in only on probation - if your first quarter grade is below a B you get kicked out. Also, have you as teachers tried tightening the standards? You'd be in a much stronger position if you could argue that kids don't get in if they don't meet the standards you as teachers set. Stronger at least as setting lowish standards (such as 91% IAAT percentile) and then wondering why parents insist their kids get in when they meet or exceed the standards that are posted. |
Anonymous
| ^^^there is no bar to take Algebra 1 in 7th though and many many kids shouldn’t take it then either. But all you need is a parent putting you in. |
Anonymous
You are in a good district if the admin are holding to standards and not letting just anyone in, and dismissing kids who don't perform at "B" level. My school doesn't - they are all about appeasing parents and "looking good" ("See how many students we have in our advanced math classes!" [whether they belong there or not!]) I know that math teachers have tried "tightening the standards" - the frustration of trying to teach kids who are not prepared for that particular class level warrants a lot of attempts at "tightening." But at my school with our relatively new admin, and according to many conversations with colleagues at other school, it usually doesn't work - in fact, the teachers are labeled as the "bad guys" because according to parents and admin (and come to think of it, society at large) it's "obviously" our (the teachers') fault for not being good enough teachers to make sure that everyone succeeds, no matter what their level of preparedness or the number of kids in the class or the number of modifications/accommodations we have to deal with (and yes, I mention this a lot because it takes a lot of time to deal with these, time I don't have to use for subject preparation and teaching, in class and out, and many of these affect both the teacher and the other kids in the class.) One of the situations that happened for me last year was where the student came in with so many IEP modifications and accommodations that there was no way he could learn the math, no matter how good or bad I was. (He was only one in a class of 32 with many other students with IEPs I also had to deal with.) For example, one was that he was allowed to leave any time he felt stressed for a walk to the counselor. But I was called in for meetings and literally told it was my fault that he didn't pass - heck, he wasn't physically in the class enough to learn! So frustrating, and discouraging! You probably know that missing one math skill or concept can affect everything down the line, and he obviously missed many of them. But he was considered "gifted" so he was allowed to stay. "Gifted" doesn't mean much if you aren't there to learn and don't put in the time and effort. But according to them, it's my fault...big sigh... Teachers used to have some say in who stays and who goes in their class, based on their professional expertise and experience. In some schools, they still do - admin and parents listen to their concerns and respect their decisions. But many don't, and the number is growing. It's just a different world in teaching now - very frustrating. On a side note, I am seriously considering leaving the profession. I love teaching and love kids, so this is a very difficult decision to make. I - and many of my colleagues - are getting beat down with too many unrealistic expectations and student and parent behavioral issues. People who don't teach don't understand (and now I expect to hear from people who don't teach telling me that they have as many or more expectations and as much pressure in their jobs as we do...sigh...go ahead...) |
Anonymous
| PP: The "best" ever was when some kids in my Honors Algebra 2 class were earning low Cs or below, so I gave a list to the counseling department so they could transfer them out to a lower class, as per written policy. They refused the transfer. I showed them a printout of the policy, dated the current year. Their response? "We don't follow that any more." I keep a copy of that written policy, my request and their response, to look at when I need a wry laugh. |
Anonymous
The original vision was very clear about not providing any acceleration/differentiation until 11th grade. It's in the original materials and videos. They walked it back pretty quickly because it was incredibly unpopular. |
Anonymous
That's really f**ked up. Kids with learning disabilities should not be in accelerated math classes. |
Anonymous
| I hope all of us agree that it's reasonable to use some sort of admissions test as a prerequisite. People of course take umbrage when someone insists that 6th and 7th grade algebra should be eliminated, because that implies that kids who would crush the admissions test and would be eminently qualified for Algebra should instead waste a year or two reviewing concepts that they've already mastered. |
Anonymous
Agreed. Many people never saw the original proposal. Only the spin and the walk back. |
Anonymous
Oh no, these were not kids with learning disabilities. They just weren't able to keep up their grades for many reasons, from lack of prerequisite knowledge to lack of work ethic. I'm very willing to spend lots of time helping a kid who has a good work ethic, but at some point some just can't keep up, and another class is best placement for them. ...and I have no problem with having kids with learning disabilities in my basic or advanced classes, if they can do the work and aren't causing disruptions - and if there aren't so many in my class, and if they don't have so many modifications and accommodations that I'm required to spend hours and hours dealing with it, that I just cannot do the job. |