Regular vs honors in 9th grade (+)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, I may be in a similar school district and the regular classes are a mess with a certain percentage of kids who have no ability to focus on the class let alone do their work.

Our middle school doesn't have honors class now so, my kids are very familiar with these children having had to endure the disruptions in middle school.

It was a relief for them to get to high school where there was honors and see a somewhat better cohort. Is every class perfect? Of course not, but it's significantly better.

OP, I'm not sure if this mirrors your district, but it's something worth considering.

Yes this is exactly what I am trying to understand.
Our MS actually informally tracks kids it seems (and there is formal tracking in math), so my kid doesn’t seem to have that problem. I am not sure if the high school has a consistent remedial track or if remedial kids are in Gen Ed classes.
My son is slated to take Algebra 2 in 9th so hopefully it will be ok even without the H. But then, I guess biology H is a good idea?

If you check with the school as to the what the latest dates are to change his schedule with no effect on his transcript and try biology H with the idea of dropping down to regular Biology within that time if it doesn’t work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It matters a lot for college admissions, OP.
Universities want to see that students have pushed themselves to take the hardest classes available to them in their high school. Of course, that also comes with the caveat that universities ALSO want to see the highest GPA possible. For my son, this meant AP everything in the Humanities, and Honors everything for STEM, because he didn't think he could handle AP versions.

It's always a game of "what is the hardest class in which your kid can get an A"? This is why most high schools have add/drop periods in the fall. Students try a hard class, get a bad grade, and drop down a level if they think they won't be able to hoist themselves to straight As.

In some schools, Honors is the new Regular, and Regular is the new Remedial.

Finally, you're correct about the fact that usually, the hardest classes have the best teachers and the most studious and least "troublesome" peer group.

This is a terrible myth. The colleges want to see (and this what they ask the guidance counselor in the infamous form) that the students challenged **themselves**, not the school catalog.

Do you see how you're saying the same thing I said? The child needs to take the hardest class they can get a good grade in. If that's not the highest level of class, just be aware that there are a great many colleges that in your day could have been in play, that today will not be for these kids. And that's FINE, but you need to know this. For example, nowadays you need a high GPA to be accepted at UVA or UMD. In the past this was not the case so much.

Lordy.

You should put more of an effort in to understanding your own writing.

The comment said "Universities want to see that students have pushed themselves to take the hardest classes available to them in their high school. "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It matters a lot for college admissions, OP.
Universities want to see that students have pushed themselves to take the hardest classes available to them in their high school. Of course, that also comes with the caveat that universities ALSO want to see the highest GPA possible. For my son, this meant AP everything in the Humanities, and Honors everything for STEM, because he didn't think he could handle AP versions.

It's always a game of "what is the hardest class in which your kid can get an A"? This is why most high schools have add/drop periods in the fall. Students try a hard class, get a bad grade, and drop down a level if they think they won't be able to hoist themselves to straight As.

In some schools, Honors is the new Regular, and Regular is the new Remedial.

Finally, you're correct about the fact that usually, the hardest classes have the best teachers and the most studious and least "troublesome" peer group.

It’s hard for me to gauge if Regular is the new Remedial in our school.
My kid will be in Algebra 2 which I think is high enough as it is to not have misbehaving kids. And in science there is Environmental Science which I think will have less sciency kids than Biology, but then Biology might somehow get a kid or two who didn’t want to take Environmental. So I guess Biology H is a good option.

Non-honors Algebra 2 will be a mix of juniors and seniors headed for non-selective colleges, and younger students who hyper accelerated too far, and fell off the wagon and are now on the bubble. Your student is in for a rough 3 more years of math after Alg 2 in 9th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It matters a lot for college admissions, OP.
Universities want to see that students have pushed themselves to take the hardest classes available to them in their high school. Of course, that also comes with the caveat that universities ALSO want to see the highest GPA possible. For my son, this meant AP everything in the Humanities, and Honors everything for STEM, because he didn't think he could handle AP versions.

It's always a game of "what is the hardest class in which your kid can get an A"? This is why most high schools have add/drop periods in the fall. Students try a hard class, get a bad grade, and drop down a level if they think they won't be able to hoist themselves to straight As.

In some schools, Honors is the new Regular, and Regular is the new Remedial.

Finally, you're correct about the fact that usually, the hardest classes have the best teachers and the most studious and least "troublesome" peer group.

It’s hard for me to gauge if Regular is the new Remedial in our school.
My kid will be in Algebra 2 which I think is high enough as it is to not have misbehaving kids. And in science there is Environmental Science which I think will have less sciency kids than Biology, but then Biology might somehow get a kid or two who didn’t want to take Environmental. So I guess Biology H is a good option.

Non-honors Algebra 2 will be a mix of juniors and seniors headed for non-selective colleges, and younger students who hyper accelerated too far, and fell off the wagon and are now on the bubble. Your student is in for a rough 3 more years of math after Alg 2 in 9th.

Lots of kids at our school do plain Alg2 (instead of A2Trig, which is the honors option at our school) and then go back to honors/AP Pre Calc (new this year) and AP Calc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, I may be in a similar school district and the regular classes are a mess with a certain percentage of kids who have no ability to focus on the class let alone do their work.

Our middle school doesn't have honors class now so, my kids are very familiar with these children having had to endure the disruptions in middle school.

It was a relief for them to get to high school where there was honors and see a somewhat better cohort. Is every class perfect? Of course not, but it's significantly better.

OP, I'm not sure if this mirrors your district, but it's something worth considering.

Yes this is exactly what I am trying to understand.
Our MS actually informally tracks kids it seems (and there is formal tracking in math), so my kid doesn’t seem to have that problem. I am not sure if the high school has a consistent remedial track or if remedial kids are in Gen Ed classes.
My son is slated to take Algebra 2 in 9th so hopefully it will be ok even without the H. But then, I guess biology H is a good idea?

If you check with the school as to the what the latest dates are to change his schedule with no effect on his transcript and try biology H with the idea of dropping down to regular Biology within that time if it doesn’t work.

Yes, exactly. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It matters a lot for college admissions, OP.
Universities want to see that students have pushed themselves to take the hardest classes available to them in their high school. Of course, that also comes with the caveat that universities ALSO want to see the highest GPA possible. For my son, this meant AP everything in the Humanities, and Honors everything for STEM, because he didn't think he could handle AP versions.

It's always a game of "what is the hardest class in which your kid can get an A"? This is why most high schools have add/drop periods in the fall. Students try a hard class, get a bad grade, and drop down a level if they think they won't be able to hoist themselves to straight As.

In some schools, Honors is the new Regular, and Regular is the new Remedial.

Finally, you're correct about the fact that usually, the hardest classes have the best teachers and the most studious and least "troublesome" peer group.

It’s hard for me to gauge if Regular is the new Remedial in our school.
My kid will be in Algebra 2 which I think is high enough as it is to not have misbehaving kids. And in science there is Environmental Science which I think will have less sciency kids than Biology, but then Biology might somehow get a kid or two who didn’t want to take Environmental. So I guess Biology H is a good option.

Non-honors Algebra 2 will be a mix of juniors and seniors headed for non-selective colleges, and younger students who hyper accelerated too far, and fell off the wagon and are now on the bubble. Your student is in for a rough 3 more years of math after Alg 2 in 9th.

What about Algebra 2 H?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It matters a lot for college admissions, OP.
Universities want to see that students have pushed themselves to take the hardest classes available to them in their high school. Of course, that also comes with the caveat that universities ALSO want to see the highest GPA possible. For my son, this meant AP everything in the Humanities, and Honors everything for STEM, because he didn't think he could handle AP versions.

It's always a game of "what is the hardest class in which your kid can get an A"? This is why most high schools have add/drop periods in the fall. Students try a hard class, get a bad grade, and drop down a level if they think they won't be able to hoist themselves to straight As.

In some schools, Honors is the new Regular, and Regular is the new Remedial.

Finally, you're correct about the fact that usually, the hardest classes have the best teachers and the most studious and least "troublesome" peer group.

It’s hard for me to gauge if Regular is the new Remedial in our school.
My kid will be in Algebra 2 which I think is high enough as it is to not have misbehaving kids. And in science there is Environmental Science which I think will have less sciency kids than Biology, but then Biology might somehow get a kid or two who didn’t want to take Environmental. So I guess Biology H is a good option.

Non-honors Algebra 2 will be a mix of juniors and seniors headed for non-selective colleges, and younger students who hyper accelerated too far, and fell off the wagon and are now on the bubble. Your student is in for a rough 3 more years of math after Alg 2 in 9th.

Lots of kids at our school do plain Alg2 (instead of A2Trig, which is the honors option at our school) and then go back to honors/AP Pre Calc (new this year) and AP Calc.

Lots of kids at my child’s magnet school take pre calc honors in 9th. It seems Alg II is the breaking point for a lot though. Kids that are good at math can get As without too much trouble in Alg I and geometry. Alg II is different though. That seems to be class where kids come apart.

[Anonymous]

If the honors class does is not weighted (i.e., if a grade of A = 4, and not 5 grade points, or whatever comparable system your school uses for grade points), I would strongly argue against taking the class. My experience is that my only B grades were in honors classes (which offered no weighting upside, but far greater workload than the regular college prep version of the class), and a non-Western foreign language that is spoken by 75 - 80% of my classmates as the primary language in the home.

Hardly anything to gain (and you can make up the rigor with AP classes where the 4 - 5 pass rate for the AP test = < 20%), and a lot to lose when your friends are coasting to an A with hardly a broken sweat and you're staring down the barrel of an 89.4% at the end of the term.

[Anonymous]

It depends on the school district. In my kid’s district, I learned the hard way that “regular” classes were really for the kids who were struggling. I hadn’t pushed him into honors classes in 9th grade because he had ADHD and is pretty much of average intellect and not super excited by school. He is pretty good with the non-stem coursed, though. Midway through last year he was complaining about something going on in his English class, and I looked at the class list. I recognized the names of the kids that he had been with in other schools who had had a ton of supports for reading and writing (which my son didn’t). This year, I made sure he was in honors classes (not AP) for all those subjects, and it’s going much better.

If your school district is Lake Wobegon, “honors” = regular, and put your kid in them unless they have a known challenge in that subject.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school district. In my kid’s district, I learned the hard way that “regular” classes were really for the kids who were struggling. I hadn’t pushed him into honors classes in 9th grade because he had ADHD and is pretty much of average intellect and not super excited by school. He is pretty good with the non-stem coursed, though. Midway through last year he was complaining about something going on in his English class, and I looked at the class list. I recognized the names of the kids that he had been with in other schools who had had a ton of supports for reading and writing (which my son didn’t). This year, I made sure he was in honors classes (not AP) for all those subjects, and it’s going much better.

If your school district is Lake Wobegon, “honors” = regular, and put your kid in them unless they have a known challenge in that subject.

Exactly this. THough is some school districts (like MCPS) they just put everyone in honors, so you don't even get a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the honors class does is not weighted (i.e., if a grade of A = 4, and not 5 grade points, or whatever comparable system your school uses for grade points), I would strongly argue against taking the class. My experience is that my only B grades were in honors classes (which offered no weighting upside, but far greater workload than the regular college prep version of the class), and a non-Western foreign language that is spoken by 75 - 80% of my classmates as the primary language in the home.

Hardly anything to gain (and you can make up the rigor with AP classes where the 4 - 5 pass rate for the AP test = < 20%), and a lot to lose when your friends are coasting to an A with hardly a broken sweat and you're staring down the barrel of an 89.4% at the end of the term.

Thank you, I get conflicted info on weighted vs unweighted for honors, I will research more.
Yes I’d love to know which class his friend group will be taking (and people who are likely to be part of his friend group), but not sure I can get this info.
So far I am thinking he should take regular Algebra 2 but honors Bio (the homework is only 15 mins a day more, and they have to read a novel, but they promise they would study things more in depth).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school district. In my kid’s district, I learned the hard way that “regular” classes were really for the kids who were struggling. I hadn’t pushed him into honors classes in 9th grade because he had ADHD and is pretty much of average intellect and not super excited by school. He is pretty good with the non-stem coursed, though. Midway through last year he was complaining about something going on in his English class, and I looked at the class list. I recognized the names of the kids that he had been with in other schools who had had a ton of supports for reading and writing (which my son didn’t). This year, I made sure he was in honors classes (not AP) for all those subjects, and it’s going much better.

If your school district is Lake Wobegon, “honors” = regular, and put your kid in them unless they have a known challenge in that subject.

This is what I am trying to understand.
There are two honors classes available to freshmen - Bio and math (algebra 2 and geometry).
Biology also has environmental science option which is the weakest option imho.
Math has a ton of options for 9th, of which regular Algebra 2 where kid is tracked by default is definitely not the weakest

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the honors class does is not weighted (i.e., if a grade of A = 4, and not 5 grade points, or whatever comparable system your school uses for grade points), I would strongly argue against taking the class. My experience is that my only B grades were in honors classes (which offered no weighting upside, but far greater workload than the regular college prep version of the class), and a non-Western foreign language that is spoken by 75 - 80% of my classmates as the primary language in the home.

Hardly anything to gain (and you can make up the rigor with AP classes where the 4 - 5 pass rate for the AP test = < 20%), and a lot to lose when your friends are coasting to an A with hardly a broken sweat and you're staring down the barrel of an 89.4% at the end of the term.

Thank you, I get conflicted info on weighted vs unweighted for honors, I will research more.
Yes I’d love to know which class his friend group will be taking (and people who are likely to be part of his friend group), but not sure I can get this info.
So far I am thinking he should take regular Algebra 2 but honors Bio (the homework is only 15 mins a day more, and they have to read a novel, but they promise they would study things more in depth).

What novel do they read in honors bio?