“Toxic achievement culture” GMAFB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was invited to attend a talk on the book Never Enough about the “toxic achievement culture” in affluent areas.

My initial reaction was give me a f$!&#*; break. The competition is real. Play to win. I do not need a privileged upper class woman lecturing me.

For families with generational wealth, sure, go ahead and embrace your unique child, don’t pressure them.

The rest of us got where we are through tremendous effort. There is only a small amount of room at the top and life for the disappearing middle class and below is difficult.

I’m just perplexed that the working affluent (W2 vs the truly wealthy) think that anything besides hitting it hard is going to cut it for their kids.

First of all, the bolded is nonsense. Most UC/UMC got where they are because of their parents.

Second, adults can do what they want, but there are, in fact, real and long-lasting consequences for many *children* who are subjected to chronic stress under the guise of "hitting it hard" or "playing to win." Why do you think your opinion is of any value here? You don't understand the mechanisms by which this stuff happens, so maybe try listening for a change. You might learn something.

Everyone gets anywhere because of their parents but no, most auMC didn't just inherit their SES. DCUM is not reflective of the country. Or even of the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class isn’t shrinking because they are all moving up?!
Um, no, Pollyanna, that is not the case.

Yes, that is the case. Really.

https://www.americanexperiment.org/the-middle-class-is-shrinking-but-that-is-because-people-are-getting-richer/#:~:text=And%20for%20the%20most%20part,has%20reached%20a%20historic%20low.%E2%80%9D

Yes, when you use inflation measures that exclude the largest components of inflation, you get the illusion that people are richer.

SMH

This article is from 2020, which is pre-inflation.

I know that your narrative is important to you, but open your mind to new information.

Wow. Just, wow.

[Anonymous]

Hi Ivy Mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we have toxic sports achievements culture. Majority of kids need more academic achievement and push, not less.

Agree with the toxic sports achievement culture and the over emphasis on sports and extracurriculars but disagree with the need for more academic push. I think in affluent areas kids are pushed both in academics and sports.

And in the non affluent areas, there is still a large emphasis on sports but zero academic push. It’s an American thing. Middle class and lower income immigrants value education and push it much more than their American counterparts of similar socioeconomic status.

That's not what the book and OP are talking about. They are talking about the top few percent of overachievers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we have toxic sports achievements culture. Majority of kids need more academic achievement and push, not less.

I agree with this. Our high school isn’t giving much homework so the kids in sports can focus on practice. WTF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class isn’t shrinking because they are all moving up?!
Um, no, Pollyanna, that is not the case.

Yes, that is the case. Really.

https://www.americanexperiment.org/the-middle-class-is-shrinking-but-that-is-because-people-are-getting-richer/#:~:text=And%20for%20the%20most%20part,has%20reached%20a%20historic%20low.%E2%80%9D

Yes, when you use inflation measures that exclude the largest components of inflation, you get the illusion that people are richer.

SMH

This article is from 2020, which is pre-inflation.

I know that your narrative is important to you, but open your mind to new information.

Wow. Just, wow.

You can respond but you can't even bother to click.

Continue in ignorance. And push toxic achievement fears onto your children. The more pressure, the better.

[Anonymous]

Well sure, pat yourself on the back. Hit it hard as long as it doesn't come at the expense of your physical and mental health. For some of us, perfection and tremendous wealth is not the end all be all. Some of us think a healthy balance of good enough is just fine. I'd rather have a healthy, happy kid any day vs. a miserable law partner by 26.

You do you, boo.

(PS. you sound miserable yourself)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was invited to attend a talk on the book Never Enough about the “toxic achievement culture” in affluent areas.

My initial reaction was give me a f$!&#*; break. The competition is real. Play to win. I do not need a privileged upper class woman lecturing me.

For families with generational wealth, sure, go ahead and embrace your unique child, don’t pressure them.

The rest of us got where we are through tremendous effort. There is only a small amount of room at the top and life for the disappearing middle class and below is difficult.

I’m just perplexed that the working affluent (W2 vs the truly wealthy) think that anything besides hitting it hard is going to cut it for their kids.

First of all, the bolded is nonsense. Most UC/UMC got where they are because of their parents.

Second, adults can do what they want, but there are, in fact, real and long-lasting consequences for many *children* who are subjected to chronic stress under the guise of "hitting it hard" or "playing to win." Why do you think your opinion is of any value here? You don't understand the mechanisms by which this stuff happens, so maybe try listening for a change. You might learn something.

Everyone gets anywhere because of their parents but no, most auMC didn't just inherit their SES. DCUM is not reflective of the country. Or even of the DMV.

Yes there are outliers who figured it all out even though they were homeless.

But the vast majority are where they are today because of their birth circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well sure, pat yourself on the back. Hit it hard as long as it doesn't come at the expense of your physical and mental health. For some of us, perfection and tremendous wealth is not the end all be all. Some of us think a healthy balance of good enough is just fine. I'd rather have a healthy, happy kid any day vs. a miserable law partner by 26.

You do you, boo.

(PS. you sound miserable yourself)

Sounds good to me, hit it hard pay into Social Security and die of a heart attack young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Expecting kids to do their best and work hard is different from "You need to get all As and at least 1500 on the SATs or you will be a failure"

Supporting kids in finding their strengths and choosing a career path based on them is different from "You need to major in Engineering or CS or we won't pay for college"

+1, you can teach perseverance, resilience, and a strong work ethic without an HYSP or bust attitude.

Many kids who driven by their parents to achieve, achieve, achieve burn out and have major mental health issues that can make it hard for them to do perfectly normal things like develop stable relationships, become parents, or build a career.

[Anonymous]

It used to be that there were athletes, nerds, etc.. now everyone is trying to excel at everything. Everyone is doing sports, APs,
Academic enrichment.. 1500+ score is so common now. There is pressure from the environment and expectations that a kid weill excel at multiple things.

[Anonymous]

I’d take a kid who knows how to think over an “excellent sheep” any day. It’s a great book BTW.

[Anonymous]

It's always the mindless followers that call other people sheep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was invited to attend a talk on the book Never Enough about the “toxic achievement culture” in affluent areas.

My initial reaction was give me a f$!&#*; break. The competition is real. Play to win. I do not need a privileged upper class woman lecturing me.

For families with generational wealth, sure, go ahead and embrace your unique child, don’t pressure them.

The rest of us got where we are through tremendous effort. There is only a small amount of room at the top and life for the disappearing middle class and below is difficult.

I’m just perplexed that the working affluent (W2 vs the truly wealthy) think that anything besides hitting it hard is going to cut it for their kids.

So you got an invitation to a discussion you think you would disagree with. The actual thoughtful thing to do would be to go to the discussion and engage with the ideas in order to refute them. That’s what “hitting it hard” academically means.

[Anonymous]

We need more data. I would bet there's a bell curve. A pushed child will outearn an unpushed child. However, a child who is pushed too much, especially to the point of developing crippling anxiety and depression, will under-earn an unpushed child. This is the point where the pushing becomes traumatic. Those parents should pull back, because it is really senseless: why push a child to be so miserable only to have said child underearn one who has led a happy life?