Rankings won't cause schools to radically change in quality, especially WM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.

The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.

The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.

+1 I think W&M should stay committed to its high academic standards--it's what will ultimately stand the test of time. Being tuition-free for Pell grant students who qualify makes so much sense--actively recruiting strong low-income students who might not be familiar with W&M, sure. Adjusting your admissions criteria to favor first gen students is wrong IMO--and though it made VT rise in the rankings, I don't think it's a great move overall for the institution or the state. I'm a progressive, but I think this generates backlash and does a disservice to students. The point should be about removing barriers to attendance for all not adjusting admissions criteria to strongly favor a group--especially in a public institution. I don't have any students applying to college right now so it's not about what will help my kid get in somewhere.

Agree with slight adjustment: "...actively recruiting strong low-income & first gen students who might not be familiar with W&M, sure. Adjusting your admissions criteria to favor first gen students & Pell Grant is wrong IMO..."

Our strong first gen DD is very happy at W&M and so are several of her classmates, some of them Pell Grant qualified. One was offered a W&M scholarship and it was the deciding factor for that girl between UVA and W&M. All came from adv academics magnet school.

The quality of students is par with UVA (only a smidgen lower on the low end). I understand the campus is not for everyone, and it will always be more self-selecting than the other big state publics.

However, changes are coming. Dorms and dining facility will be much improved in roughly 2 years, a new Science Building with the addition of Design/Engineering (are they going to start offering some engineering I wonder).

And the new fine arts building just opened. (My musician DD is over the moon).

I my kid is planning on taking piano in the summer again and is looking forward to it too. Was quite the experience this summer, playing in the old basement and everything around already getting packed up.

[Anonymous]

Sure WM will continue to be the 2nd/3rd choice for VA In-State

Really nothing changes for WM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.

The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.

The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.

Where is your evidence that VT takes 1st Gen students *at the expense* of “more qualified students”? And how would you possibly know who is “more qualified” and what their background is? Look, sorry your kid wasn’t accepted to VT, but you really need to get over it.
DP

[Anonymous]

W&M most definitely has TAs teaching certain classes - what are you people talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.

The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.

The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.

W&M should not set DEI targets, they should remain the school they are and have always been.

When rankings disregard commitment to undergraduate teaching by devaluing small class sizes being taught by highly qualified professors (not TAs) then those rankings become utterly meaningless.

Best liberal arts college in VA. Hands down.

Every course is taught by a Professor, not TAs. It's known to be very rigorous, and that the students are some of the best prepared after graduation (as told by graduate programs, law schools and employers).

So, these TAs aren’t really TAs?

https://www.wm.edu/as/cga/people/teaching-assistants/
https://www.wm.edu/as/graduate/studentresources/resources-teaching/
This handbook contains helpful information to prepare grad students to step into the classroom as an instructor for the first time, or for the hundredth time. It offers practical advice about teaching relevant for TAs and TFs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M is a fine school. Students choosing VT over W&M is a newer and significant trend.

But students aren't really choosing VT over W&M if they aren't studying engineering. Which they always did. W&M profile of admitted students is stronger than VT and their acceptance rate is lower.

Again, you are grossly mistaken. Many kids choose VT over W&M, regardless of major. I have a humanities major at VT who had zero desire to attend W&M. To assume VT is merely an “engineering” school is to vastly underestimate its appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M is a fine school. Students choosing VT over W&M is a newer and significant trend.

But students aren't really choosing VT over W&M if they aren't studying engineering. Which they always did. W&M profile of admitted students is stronger than VT and their acceptance rate is lower.

Again, you are grossly mistaken. Many kids choose VT over W&M, regardless of major. I have a humanities major at VT who had zero desire to attend W&M. To assume VT is merely an “engineering” school is to vastly underestimate its appeal.

I'm talking about general patterns--there's not evidence that is happening on average for kids with the qualifications to get into WM. Look at the 25-75th score ranges for the non-engineering VT students, they are nowhere near the level of WM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.

The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.

The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.

Where is your evidence that VT takes 1st Gen students *at the expense* of “more qualified students”? And how would you possibly know who is “more qualified” and what their background is? Look, sorry your kid wasn’t accepted to VT, but you really need to get over it.
DP

My kid didn’t apply to VT. They’re at WM. But, you do you.

[Anonymous]

I find it pathetic that WM people feel the need to boost their school now that they’ve dropped in the rankings. Just take the L.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.

The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.

The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.

Where is your evidence that VT takes 1st Gen students *at the expense* of “more qualified students”? And how would you possibly know who is “more qualified” and what their background is? Look, sorry your kid wasn’t accepted to VT, but you really need to get over it.
DP

My kid didn’t apply to VT. They’re at WM. But, you do you.

So you’re unable to answer the PP’s questions. Got it.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.

The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.

The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.

W&M should not set DEI targets, they should remain the school they are and have always been.

When rankings disregard commitment to undergraduate teaching by devaluing small class sizes being taught by highly qualified professors (not TAs) then those rankings become utterly meaningless.

Best liberal arts college in VA. Hands down.

Every course is taught by a Professor, not TAs. It's known to be very rigorous, and that the students are some of the best prepared after graduation (as told by graduate programs, law schools and employers).

So, these TAs aren’t really TAs?

https://www.wm.edu/as/cga/people/teaching-assistants/
https://www.wm.edu/as/graduate/studentresources/resources-teaching/
This handbook contains helpful information to prepare grad students to step into the classroom as an instructor for the first time, or for the hundredth time. It offers practical advice about teaching relevant for TAs and TFs.

My kid took Intro GIS. It’s taught by a professor. That class, History 192 on the humanities side and maybe one on the STEM side are larger other have small section discussion with a “TA” from the education school (vs grad students from the department). It’s not the norm. And no kid should have more than one class as an undergrad where that happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fortuitous coincidence that exactly when W&M could greatly benefit from helping the downtrodden, the country finds itself with an abundance of ambitious first-generation college-age immigrants whom the progressives in Williamsburg would probably welcome with open arms.

The do. WM is now tuition free for Pell grant students, and these students graduate at a high rate. They are welcome and supported.

The question is, should WM do soft/hard DEI targets like VT, even at the expense of taking more qualified students? I have a kid who went through TJ during the admissions criteria change, and am inclined to say no.

W&M should not set DEI targets, they should remain the school they are and have always been.

When rankings disregard commitment to undergraduate teaching by devaluing small class sizes being taught by highly qualified professors (not TAs) then those rankings become utterly meaningless.

Best liberal arts college in VA. Hands down.

Every course is taught by a Professor, not TAs. It's known to be very rigorous, and that the students are some of the best prepared after graduation (as told by graduate programs, law schools and employers).

So, these TAs aren’t really TAs?

https://www.wm.edu/as/cga/people/teaching-assistants/
https://www.wm.edu/as/graduate/studentresources/resources-teaching/
This handbook contains helpful information to prepare grad students to step into the classroom as an instructor for the first time, or for the hundredth time. It offers practical advice about teaching relevant for TAs and TFs.

Crickets…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M is a fine school. Students choosing VT over W&M is a newer and significant trend.

But students aren't really choosing VT over W&M if they aren't studying engineering. Which they always did. W&M profile of admitted students is stronger than VT and their acceptance rate is lower.

Again, you are grossly mistaken. Many kids choose VT over W&M, regardless of major. I have a humanities major at VT who had zero desire to attend W&M. To assume VT is merely an “engineering” school is to vastly underestimate its appeal.

This.
Many people perceive WM as a SLAC and prefer VT even for non-engineering majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M is a fine school. Students choosing VT over W&M is a newer and significant trend.

But students aren't really choosing VT over W&M if they aren't studying engineering. Which they always did. W&M profile of admitted students is stronger than VT and their acceptance rate is lower.

What? Of course they are. W&M is not everyone’s cup of tea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M is a fine school. Students choosing VT over W&M is a newer and significant trend.

But students aren't really choosing VT over W&M if they aren't studying engineering. Which they always did. W&M profile of admitted students is stronger than VT and their acceptance rate is lower.

Again, you are grossly mistaken. Many kids choose VT over W&M, regardless of major. I have a humanities major at VT who had zero desire to attend W&M. To assume VT is merely an “engineering” school is to vastly underestimate its appeal.

This.
Many people perceive WM as a SLAC and prefer VT even for non-engineering majors.

+1
My non-engineering kids chose VT over UVA and W&M. A lot of kids do.