Solar for Dummies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it depends. My first house, we leased. Signed a contact for 25 years. Then decided to move. The new buyers had to agree to keep solar or we could remove for a huge penalty. Basically for cancellation of the contract. It was very stressful. We did sell and the new buyers agreed to the panels but it was very stressful. This we 10 years ago when solar was relatively new so many people did not know about it.
We vowed never to do solar on our new house.

But, we recently looked into buying panels. With all the state and federal tax credits in Maryland, it is a much better option for us to own. Our panels are also on the back of the house and will produce 100% of power we need. You do not want to over produce. Selling power back to electric company is not really a good deal. We also for esthetic reasons did not want any panels in the front of the house. You can have a company come out and look at your roof and ensure it is structurally sound to support all the panels and determine how many panels you need and how much you can produce. Good luck!

So much great info here, thank you! I'm really curious as to why selling power back to the electric company isn't a good deal. I'll research that on my end - I'm in Southern California (by way of Bethesda ), so will look to see what SDGE says about this. Thanks!

In Maryland, cost of 1 kWh is about 10 cents. So, if you produce 100 kWh/month and use 100 kWh/month, you pay nothing because you produced what you need. If you produce 150 kWh in a month, the 50 kWh you sell back to the power company is 5 cents per kWh. You are not getting the 10 cents the power company is charging you. Hope this makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it depends. My first house, we leased. Signed a contact for 25 years. Then decided to move. The new buyers had to agree to keep solar or we could remove for a huge penalty. Basically for cancellation of the contract. It was very stressful. We did sell and the new buyers agreed to the panels but it was very stressful. This we 10 years ago when solar was relatively new so many people did not know about it.
We vowed never to do solar on our new house.

But, we recently looked into buying panels. With all the state and federal tax credits in Maryland, it is a much better option for us to own. Our panels are also on the back of the house and will produce 100% of power we need. You do not want to over produce. Selling power back to electric company is not really a good deal. We also for esthetic reasons did not want any panels in the front of the house. You can have a company come out and look at your roof and ensure it is structurally sound to support all the panels and determine how many panels you need and how much you can produce. Good luck!

So much great info here, thank you! I'm really curious as to why selling power back to the electric company isn't a good deal. I'll research that on my end - I'm in Southern California (by way of Bethesda ), so will look to see what SDGE says about this. Thanks!

In Maryland, cost of 1 kWh is about 10 cents. So, if you produce 100 kWh/month and use 100 kWh/month, you pay nothing because you produced what you need. If you produce 150 kWh in a month, the 50 kWh you sell back to the power company is 5 cents per kWh. You are not getting the 10 cents the power company is charging you. Hope this makes sense.

SDGE is closer to 50 cents per kWh. Looking to do the same as OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it depends. My first house, we leased. Signed a contact for 25 years. Then decided to move. The new buyers had to agree to keep solar or we could remove for a huge penalty. Basically for cancellation of the contract. It was very stressful. We did sell and the new buyers agreed to the panels but it was very stressful. This we 10 years ago when solar was relatively new so many people did not know about it.
We vowed never to do solar on our new house.

But, we recently looked into buying panels. With all the state and federal tax credits in Maryland, it is a much better option for us to own. Our panels are also on the back of the house and will produce 100% of power we need. You do not want to over produce. Selling power back to electric company is not really a good deal. We also for esthetic reasons did not want any panels in the front of the house. You can have a company come out and look at your roof and ensure it is structurally sound to support all the panels and determine how many panels you need and how much you can produce. Good luck!

So much great info here, thank you! I'm really curious as to why selling power back to the electric company isn't a good deal. I'll research that on my end - I'm in Southern California (by way of Bethesda ), so will look to see what SDGE says about this. Thanks!

In Maryland, cost of 1 kWh is about 10 cents. So, if you produce 100 kWh/month and use 100 kWh/month, you pay nothing because you produced what you need. If you produce 150 kWh in a month, the 50 kWh you sell back to the power company is 5 cents per kWh. You are not getting the 10 cents the power company is charging you. Hope this makes sense.

SDGE is closer to 50 cents per kWh. Looking to do the same as OP.

SDGE is .57 per kWh for on peak which is 4pm-9pm. It's insanity. We don't even the AC on until 10pm just so we can sleep comfortably and our bill is still $500 a month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have electric or gas water heater and furnace? If your systems are on gas (excluding seasonal electric A/C and laundry) and you are not planning on adding battery storage to your system or selling back electricity will it even be worthwhile financially to either buy or lease?

I’ve been looking into solar for my house and keep coming back to this question. My neighbor spent $30k on solar panels and says that they will recoup the money in only 10 years. That seems like a lot of time to me and in that time the technology can change considerably.

Whoa - $30K in 10 years seems like a long time to me too. I was under the assumption that since solar has become much more competitive over the last decade and the systems have improved, that the costs would be lower and the time to recoup also lower.

To answer your first question, yes we have both gas and electric. Gas water heater, furnace, cooktop, dryer. Electric for all else. Will have to look at what SDGE says about selling energy back to them.

I’m the pp who wrote this. If you live in Southern California your cooling needs are probably greater than your heating needs unlike us in Bethesda so solar would make more sense.

I forgot that we recently got an online quote from a MoCo solar panel program for our 2100 sf Bethesda split level for $27k for the purchase of solar panels. It seems ridiculously high.

See that's the part that confuses me. $27K-$30K it's going to take forever to recoup that. This is where I need more education.

Well you get a 30% federal tax credit so the $30k immediately becomes $21k. Then some states have add’l tax credits or SREC markets where you can sell credits to help utilities meet their renewable portfolio requirements.

I installed a $30K system in DC a few years ago. It produces about $150 worth of electricity each month, and about $500 worth of SREC's -- Solar Renewable Energy Credits. As you say, with the 30% federal credit the installed cost was about $21K. It paid for itself in a little over three years, since then it's been generating about $7000 a year in income. The value of the SREC's has gone down slightly but the cost of electricity has gone up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have electric or gas water heater and furnace? If your systems are on gas (excluding seasonal electric A/C and laundry) and you are not planning on adding battery storage to your system or selling back electricity will it even be worthwhile financially to either buy or lease?

I’ve been looking into solar for my house and keep coming back to this question. My neighbor spent $30k on solar panels and says that they will recoup the money in only 10 years. That seems like a lot of time to me and in that time the technology can change considerably.

Whoa - $30K in 10 years seems like a long time to me too. I was under the assumption that since solar has become much more competitive over the last decade and the systems have improved, that the costs would be lower and the time to recoup also lower.

To answer your first question, yes we have both gas and electric. Gas water heater, furnace, cooktop, dryer. Electric for all else. Will have to look at what SDGE says about selling energy back to them.

I’m the pp who wrote this. If you live in Southern California your cooling needs are probably greater than your heating needs unlike us in Bethesda so solar would make more sense.

I forgot that we recently got an online quote from a MoCo solar panel program for our 2100 sf Bethesda split level for $27k for the purchase of solar panels. It seems ridiculously high.

See that's the part that confuses me. $27K-$30K it's going to take forever to recoup that. This is where I need more education.

Well you get a 30% federal tax credit so the $30k immediately becomes $21k. Then some states have add’l tax credits or SREC markets where you can sell credits to help utilities meet their renewable portfolio requirements.

I installed a $30K system in DC a few years ago. It produces about $150 worth of electricity each month, and about $500 worth of SREC's -- Solar Renewable Energy Credits. As you say, with the 30% federal credit the installed cost was about $21K. It paid for itself in a little over three years, since then it's been generating about $7000 a year in income. The value of the SREC's has gone down slightly but the cost of electricity has gone up.

Can you explain what you mean by this - "generating $7K annual income"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it depends. My first house, we leased. Signed a contact for 25 years. Then decided to move. The new buyers had to agree to keep solar or we could remove for a huge penalty. Basically for cancellation of the contract. It was very stressful. We did sell and the new buyers agreed to the panels but it was very stressful. This we 10 years ago when solar was relatively new so many people did not know about it.
We vowed never to do solar on our new house.

But, we recently looked into buying panels. With all the state and federal tax credits in Maryland, it is a much better option for us to own. Our panels are also on the back of the house and will produce 100% of power we need. You do not want to over produce. Selling power back to electric company is not really a good deal. We also for esthetic reasons did not want any panels in the front of the house. You can have a company come out and look at your roof and ensure it is structurally sound to support all the panels and determine how many panels you need and how much you can produce. Good luck!

So much great info here, thank you! I'm really curious as to why selling power back to the electric company isn't a good deal. I'll research that on my end - I'm in Southern California (by way of Bethesda ), so will look to see what SDGE says about this. Thanks!

In Maryland, cost of 1 kWh is about 10 cents. So, if you produce 100 kWh/month and use 100 kWh/month, you pay nothing because you produced what you need. If you produce 150 kWh in a month, the 50 kWh you sell back to the power company is 5 cents per kWh. You are not getting the 10 cents the power company is charging you. Hope this makes sense.

SDGE is closer to 50 cents per kWh. Looking to do the same as OP.

SDGE is .57 per kWh for on peak which is 4pm-9pm. It's insanity. We don't even the AC on until 10pm just so we can sleep comfortably and our bill is still $500 a month.

I did know the answer to the penny. We set to 80, turn it off during the day and it's $550, only $40 was gas (stove, tankless water heater). Last fall there was the gas price spike and we were going over $1000 while hardly using the heat. I want all electric appliances, heat pump, a hybrid vehicle and solar with storage. The issue for us is we need some electrical upgrades, and have a handmade tile roof. I want an induction range, simply because I've hated the last two gas ranges I've had (previous house and here).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have electric or gas water heater and furnace? If your systems are on gas (excluding seasonal electric A/C and laundry) and you are not planning on adding battery storage to your system or selling back electricity will it even be worthwhile financially to either buy or lease?

I’ve been looking into solar for my house and keep coming back to this question. My neighbor spent $30k on solar panels and says that they will recoup the money in only 10 years. That seems like a lot of time to me and in that time the technology can change considerably.

Whoa - $30K in 10 years seems like a long time to me too. I was under the assumption that since solar has become much more competitive over the last decade and the systems have improved, that the costs would be lower and the time to recoup also lower.

To answer your first question, yes we have both gas and electric. Gas water heater, furnace, cooktop, dryer. Electric for all else. Will have to look at what SDGE says about selling energy back to them.

I’m the pp who wrote this. If you live in Southern California your cooling needs are probably greater than your heating needs unlike us in Bethesda so solar would make more sense.

I forgot that we recently got an online quote from a MoCo solar panel program for our 2100 sf Bethesda split level for $27k for the purchase of solar panels. It seems ridiculously high.

See that's the part that confuses me. $27K-$30K it's going to take forever to recoup that. This is where I need more education.

Well you get a 30% federal tax credit so the $30k immediately becomes $21k. Then some states have add’l tax credits or SREC markets where you can sell credits to help utilities meet their renewable portfolio requirements.

I installed a $30K system in DC a few years ago. It produces about $150 worth of electricity each month, and about $500 worth of SREC's -- Solar Renewable Energy Credits. As you say, with the 30% federal credit the installed cost was about $21K. It paid for itself in a little over three years, since then it's been generating about $7000 a year in income. The value of the SREC's has gone down slightly but the cost of electricity has gone up.

Can you explain what you mean by this - "generating $7K annual income"?

The SREC's are cash, they show up in my checking account by direct deposit, about $5K a year. I haven't paid an electric bill in five years, before I got solar I was paying $150 a month or $1800 a year. That's also money in my pocket, albeit indirectly. Together I am about $7K a year richer. The panels are paid for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have electric or gas water heater and furnace? If your systems are on gas (excluding seasonal electric A/C and laundry) and you are not planning on adding battery storage to your system or selling back electricity will it even be worthwhile financially to either buy or lease?

I’ve been looking into solar for my house and keep coming back to this question. My neighbor spent $30k on solar panels and says that they will recoup the money in only 10 years. That seems like a lot of time to me and in that time the technology can change considerably.

Whoa - $30K in 10 years seems like a long time to me too. I was under the assumption that since solar has become much more competitive over the last decade and the systems have improved, that the costs would be lower and the time to recoup also lower.

To answer your first question, yes we have both gas and electric. Gas water heater, furnace, cooktop, dryer. Electric for all else. Will have to look at what SDGE says about selling energy back to them.

I’m the pp who wrote this. If you live in Southern California your cooling needs are probably greater than your heating needs unlike us in Bethesda so solar would make more sense.

I forgot that we recently got an online quote from a MoCo solar panel program for our 2100 sf Bethesda split level for $27k for the purchase of solar panels. It seems ridiculously high.

See that's the part that confuses me. $27K-$30K it's going to take forever to recoup that. This is where I need more education.

Well you get a 30% federal tax credit so the $30k immediately becomes $21k. Then some states have add’l tax credits or SREC markets where you can sell credits to help utilities meet their renewable portfolio requirements.

I installed a $30K system in DC a few years ago. It produces about $150 worth of electricity each month, and about $500 worth of SREC's -- Solar Renewable Energy Credits. As you say, with the 30% federal credit the installed cost was about $21K. It paid for itself in a little over three years, since then it's been generating about $7000 a year in income. The value of the SREC's has gone down slightly but the cost of electricity has gone up.

Can you explain what you mean by this - "generating $7K annual income"?

NP. The SREC (solar renewable energy credit) market in DC is the strongest in the country. for every megawatt of solar I generate, I get paid approximately $400 for a SREC, because pepco gets fined $500 per megawatt for failing to source ~15% of their power from renewable energy within the district. (which is less than 10 square miles of space to generate solar, in a densely built-up landscape.)

In maryland and virginia, a SREC is around $50. In the rest of the country most of the payback is going to be in reducing your energy bills.

So my system should generate about $8000/year in SREC credits, and reduce my annual power expenditures by about $3500 a year based on what I paid last year, thus my solar panels will be paid off in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have electric or gas water heater and furnace? If your systems are on gas (excluding seasonal electric A/C and laundry) and you are not planning on adding battery storage to your system or selling back electricity will it even be worthwhile financially to either buy or lease?

I’ve been looking into solar for my house and keep coming back to this question. My neighbor spent $30k on solar panels and says that they will recoup the money in only 10 years. That seems like a lot of time to me and in that time the technology can change considerably.

Whoa - $30K in 10 years seems like a long time to me too. I was under the assumption that since solar has become much more competitive over the last decade and the systems have improved, that the costs would be lower and the time to recoup also lower.

To answer your first question, yes we have both gas and electric. Gas water heater, furnace, cooktop, dryer. Electric for all else. Will have to look at what SDGE says about selling energy back to them.

I’m the pp who wrote this. If you live in Southern California your cooling needs are probably greater than your heating needs unlike us in Bethesda so solar would make more sense.

I forgot that we recently got an online quote from a MoCo solar panel program for our 2100 sf Bethesda split level for $27k for the purchase of solar panels. It seems ridiculously high.

See that's the part that confuses me. $27K-$30K it's going to take forever to recoup that. This is where I need more education.

Well you get a 30% federal tax credit so the $30k immediately becomes $21k. Then some states have add’l tax credits or SREC markets where you can sell credits to help utilities meet their renewable portfolio requirements.

I installed a $30K system in DC a few years ago. It produces about $150 worth of electricity each month, and about $500 worth of SREC's -- Solar Renewable Energy Credits. As you say, with the 30% federal credit the installed cost was about $21K. It paid for itself in a little over three years, since then it's been generating about $7000 a year in income. The value of the SREC's has gone down slightly but the cost of electricity has gone up.

Can you explain what you mean by this - "generating $7K annual income"?

NP. The SREC (solar renewable energy credit) market in DC is the strongest in the country. for every megawatt of solar I generate, I get paid approximately $400 for a SREC, because pepco gets fined $500 per megawatt for failing to source ~15% of their power from renewable energy within the district. (which is less than 10 square miles of space to generate solar, in a densely built-up landscape.)

In maryland and virginia, a SREC is around $50. In the rest of the country most of the payback is going to be in reducing your energy bills.

So my system should generate about $8000/year in SREC credits, and reduce my annual power expenditures by about $3500 a year based on what I paid last year, thus my solar panels will be paid off in a few years.

Wow! I had no idea. So dumb question here - is this considered taxable income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have electric or gas water heater and furnace? If your systems are on gas (excluding seasonal electric A/C and laundry) and you are not planning on adding battery storage to your system or selling back electricity will it even be worthwhile financially to either buy or lease?

I’ve been looking into solar for my house and keep coming back to this question. My neighbor spent $30k on solar panels and says that they will recoup the money in only 10 years. That seems like a lot of time to me and in that time the technology can change considerably.

Whoa - $30K in 10 years seems like a long time to me too. I was under the assumption that since solar has become much more competitive over the last decade and the systems have improved, that the costs would be lower and the time to recoup also lower.

To answer your first question, yes we have both gas and electric. Gas water heater, furnace, cooktop, dryer. Electric for all else. Will have to look at what SDGE says about selling energy back to them.

I’m the pp who wrote this. If you live in Southern California your cooling needs are probably greater than your heating needs unlike us in Bethesda so solar would make more sense.

I forgot that we recently got an online quote from a MoCo solar panel program for our 2100 sf Bethesda split level for $27k for the purchase of solar panels. It seems ridiculously high.

See that's the part that confuses me. $27K-$30K it's going to take forever to recoup that. This is where I need more education.

Well you get a 30% federal tax credit so the $30k immediately becomes $21k. Then some states have add’l tax credits or SREC markets where you can sell credits to help utilities meet their renewable portfolio requirements.

I installed a $30K system in DC a few years ago. It produces about $150 worth of electricity each month, and about $500 worth of SREC's -- Solar Renewable Energy Credits. As you say, with the 30% federal credit the installed cost was about $21K. It paid for itself in a little over three years, since then it's been generating about $7000 a year in income. The value of the SREC's has gone down slightly but the cost of electricity has gone up.

Can you explain what you mean by this - "generating $7K annual income"?

NP. The SREC (solar renewable energy credit) market in DC is the strongest in the country. for every megawatt of solar I generate, I get paid approximately $400 for a SREC, because pepco gets fined $500 per megawatt for failing to source ~15% of their power from renewable energy within the district. (which is less than 10 square miles of space to generate solar, in a densely built-up landscape.)

In maryland and virginia, a SREC is around $50. In the rest of the country most of the payback is going to be in reducing your energy bills.

So my system should generate about $8000/year in SREC credits, and reduce my annual power expenditures by about $3500 a year based on what I paid last year, thus my solar panels will be paid off in a few years.

Wow! I had no idea. So dumb question here - is this considered taxable income?

The IRS hasn't ruled on SREC's. You don't get a 1099.

The avoided cost of electricity wouldn't be considered taxable income.

[Anonymous]

I bought solar panels for my small house a couple of years ago (late 2020). They were about $10K before state/federal rebates. I bought through a solar coop that is supposed to provide lower costs for participants.

https://www.solarunitedneighbors.org/maryland

The solar company estimated it would take me about 7 years to recoup my investment, and that seems about right. Since I've had the panels I only pay about $9/mo for electricity (that's fees to Pepco) and I've earned about $900 in SRECs.

I also needed to get my roof replaced for the installer would put the panels on. Your roof needs a certain amount of years of life left, and mine was well past that. I would have needed to replace my roof anyway, so this just sped up my timetable for that.

I'm happy with my panels. However, I also think that they're not worth having if you can't buy them outright; the finances only barely make sense if you own them, and the benefits are really not there if someone else is getting all the tax breaks and you're having to pay a leasing fee every month. If you want to get them to "save the earth," then honestly, there are better and cheaper ways to do that.

I also think that they work best if most of your house runs on electricity. I am considering switching to a heat pump, for example (currently I have a gas furnace.) I'd also like to get an induction stove and an electric dryer. But those changes are expensive so I haven't done that yet.

Again, I am happy with my panels, I'm not sorry I got them. But realistically, I'm not maximizing their benefit to me yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bought solar panels for my small house a couple of years ago (late 2020). They were about $10K before state/federal rebates. I bought through a solar coop that is supposed to provide lower costs for participants.

https://www.solarunitedneighbors.org/maryland

The solar company estimated it would take me about 7 years to recoup my investment, and that seems about right. Since I've had the panels I only pay about $9/mo for electricity (that's fees to Pepco) and I've earned about $900 in SRECs.

I also needed to get my roof replaced for the installer would put the panels on. Your roof needs a certain amount of years of life left, and mine was well past that. I would have needed to replace my roof anyway, so this just sped up my timetable for that.

I'm happy with my panels. However, I also think that they're not worth having if you can't buy them outright; the finances only barely make sense if you own them, and the benefits are really not there if someone else is getting all the tax breaks and you're having to pay a leasing fee every month. If you want to get them to "save the earth," then honestly, there are better and cheaper ways to do that.

I also think that they work best if most of your house runs on electricity. I am considering switching to a heat pump, for example (currently I have a gas furnace.) I'd also like to get an induction stove and an electric dryer. But those changes are expensive so I haven't done that yet.

Again, I am happy with my panels, I'm not sorry I got them. But realistically, I'm not maximizing their benefit to me yet.

OP here - thank you for this, I appreciate you sharing the pros and cons. It does seem like buying is the way to go, if we're going to go solar.

[Anonymous]

We put panels on our DC row house (flat roof) and it’s been great. We paid for them up front and got the tax break, and then have been getting about $300 in SREC payments every month (along with almost nothing in electric bills). It’s a big outlay upfront but I’m a fan so far!

[Anonymous]

What about Virginia, anyone? (Arlington in particular?)

[Anonymous]

It’s worth it if this is your forever home. ROI takes years if you buy them and a little risky since leasing is long term like 25 years.