Wealth, privilege and college admissions

[Anonymous]

I went to an Ivy almost 30 years ago, I was surprised to learn this year that the class one of my kids is applying to is going to be exactly the same size as my class. With a huge increase in international admissions and population growth in the US there is a much bigger pool of talent for the same very small number of spots. Even as an alum I don’t understand why these schools carry so much weight given how little of our country they serve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are going to see more and more reports like this, and school like the Big 3 are going to take college admissions hit as a result. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. Slowly but surely, it will happen.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2023/08/07/georgetown-admissions-advantage-report

I doubt it. Because the big 3 are dominated by wealthy kids. Going to elite colleges. Why would that change? The reports just revealed what was already long known, if unofficially.

Are you dense? Being “long known” is one thing. Being talked about and criticized in the open is another. There will be more and more pressure on colleges to rethink how they evaluate candidates, especially with the demise of race-based admissions. This will only hurt, not help, private school applications.

It’s kinda cool.

Ok then, you take your kid out of their private school. The rest of us will stay the long course - just like any other investment - time matters.

Yeah, but I thought that private school parents didn’t send kids to private school for college admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the majority of smartest kids will eventually attend flagship state schools. Ivies will be a thing of the past.

Ivies will remain what it was back before the 1960s -- well connected, mostly very wealthy white families. The very brightest, not connected families will end up in the big flagships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are going to see more and more reports like this, and school like the Big 3 are going to take college admissions hit as a result. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. Slowly but surely, it will happen.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2023/08/07/georgetown-admissions-advantage-report

I doubt it. Because the big 3 are dominated by wealthy kids. Going to elite colleges. Why would that change? The reports just revealed what was already long known, if unofficially.

Are you dense? Being “long known” is one thing. Being talked about and criticized in the open is another. There will be more and more pressure on colleges to rethink how they evaluate candidates, especially with the demise of race-based admissions. This will only hurt, not help, private school applications.

It’s kinda cool.

It will not change. Someone has to pay for college. These students do. No I do not think there will be any hit. If anything I think this group will grow for most colleges not shrink.

Only if the market crashes. Endowments have ballooned in the past couple of years. If anything, schools now have more freedom to ignore wealth in admissions.

So you actually think that colleges with large endowments are going to “ignore wealth in admissions”? If so, you are incredibly naive.

They are more free to now than ever ever before. MIT JHU CMU and Amherst have already made that decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the majority of smartest kids will eventually attend flagship state schools. Ivies will be a thing of the past.

Ivies will remain what it was back before the 1960s -- well connected, mostly very wealthy white families. The very brightest, not connected families will end up in the big flagships.

I think that's where we're heading. Even the bulk professional class is starting to get priced out now. Harvard will be filled with very rich kids, very poor kids, and kids whose parents are willing to go deep into debt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are going to see more and more reports like this, and school like the Big 3 are going to take college admissions hit as a result. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. Slowly but surely, it will happen.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2023/08/07/georgetown-admissions-advantage-report

I doubt it. Because the big 3 are dominated by wealthy kids. Going to elite colleges. Why would that change? The reports just revealed what was already long known, if unofficially.

Are you dense? Being “long known” is one thing. Being talked about and criticized in the open is another. There will be more and more pressure on colleges to rethink how they evaluate candidates, especially with the demise of race-based admissions. This will only hurt, not help, private school applications.

It’s kinda cool.

It will not change. Someone has to pay for college. These students do. No I do not think there will be any hit. If anything I think this group will grow for most colleges not shrink.

Only if the market crashes. Endowments have ballooned in the past couple of years. If anything, schools now have more freedom to ignore wealth in admissions.

Endowments do not work that way. Remember endowments are meant to last for several hundred years. You make very few decisions in any given year that really impact the endowment. At best schools pull 2.5 to 4% a year from their endowment. The market is good this year but even if you had 500 million in gains you have maybe 10-15 million in new spending. That is already earmarked for something else. A building, lab, more land, dorm. And colleges would not spend all of that because they know the market moves up and down.

Full pay kids are the lifeblood of almost every school. Nothing will change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are going to see more and more reports like this, and school like the Big 3 are going to take college admissions hit as a result. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. Slowly but surely, it will happen.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2023/08/07/georgetown-admissions-advantage-report

I doubt it. Because the big 3 are dominated by wealthy kids. Going to elite colleges. Why would that change? The reports just revealed what was already long known, if unofficially.

Are you dense? Being “long known” is one thing. Being talked about and criticized in the open is another. There will be more and more pressure on colleges to rethink how they evaluate candidates, especially with the demise of race-based admissions. This will only hurt, not help, private school applications.

It’s kinda cool.

Ok then, you take your kid out of their private school. The rest of us will stay the long course - just like any other investment - time matters.

Yeah, but I thought that private school parents didn’t send kids to private school for college admissions?

I don’t send my kids to private school because I think I’m promised Ivy admissions but I do think my kids will maximize their potential. One of my kids is a top student, the other works hard for Bs and I don’t think they’ll have the same college admissions, nor should they.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are going to see more and more reports like this, and school like the Big 3 are going to take college admissions hit as a result. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. Slowly but surely, it will happen.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2023/08/07/georgetown-admissions-advantage-report

I doubt it. Because the big 3 are dominated by wealthy kids. Going to elite colleges. Why would that change? The reports just revealed what was already long known, if unofficially.

Are you dense? Being “long known” is one thing. Being talked about and criticized in the open is another. There will be more and more pressure on colleges to rethink how they evaluate candidates, especially with the demise of race-based admissions. This will only hurt, not help, private school applications.

It’s kinda cool.

It will not change. Someone has to pay for college. These students do. No I do not think there will be any hit. If anything I think this group will grow for most colleges not shrink.

Only if the market crashes. Endowments have ballooned in the past couple of years. If anything, schools now have more freedom to ignore wealth in admissions.

So you actually think that colleges with large endowments are going to “ignore wealth in admissions”? If so, you are incredibly naive.

They are more free to now than ever ever before. MIT JHU CMU and Amherst have already made that decision.

A few schools have/will eliminate legacy admissions. Many won’t. That has nothing to do with the size of the endowments. These schools will continue to disproportionately admit wealthy students (legacy or not).

[Anonymous]

I’m a Yale graduate. I was a regular middle class kid from a public high school (both my parents were teachers, so maybe on the lower edge of upper middle class). I had a very good experience at Yale, got good grades, married a classmate, went to an R1 state university for my PhD, and I have a nice professional life.

Most of my friends from Yale are like me. MC or UMC kids who became professionals. We mostly married each other and we have nice lives.

But, there was another Yale that we had nothing to do with. The Yale that was filled with rich, well-connected kids who all knew each other from prep schools, summer camps, country clubs. They pretty much hung out with each other at Yale and with their high school friends from other colleges. After graduation, they got jobs through connections, worked for family companies, married each other. Where they went to college didn’t really matter. The ones from Yale and the ones who went to Michigan or Emory are all still rich and all still friends.

If your kid wants to go to an Ivy, that is a nice dream and they should pursue it. But, it’s not likely to be transformational. Upper middle class kids are mostly going to become upper middle class adults. Rich, well-connected kids are mostly going to become rich, well-connected adults. A few from each group will float up or down.

I don’t get the obsession with who gets into the Ivy League schools. That is not where class change happens. A Yale full of nice upper middle class kids will mostly produce professionals and academics but not an outsized number of the rich or powerful in society. That is fine but I’m not sure it’s worth fighting each other over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are going to see more and more reports like this, and school like the Big 3 are going to take college admissions hit as a result. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. Slowly but surely, it will happen.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2023/08/07/georgetown-admissions-advantage-report

I doubt it. Because the big 3 are dominated by wealthy kids. Going to elite colleges. Why would that change? The reports just revealed what was already long known, if unofficially.

Are you dense? Being “long known” is one thing. Being talked about and criticized in the open is another. There will be more and more pressure on colleges to rethink how they evaluate candidates, especially with the demise of race-based admissions. This will only hurt, not help, private school applications.

It’s kinda cool.

It will not change. Someone has to pay for college. These students do. No I do not think there will be any hit. If anything I think this group will grow for most colleges not shrink.

Only if the market crashes. Endowments have ballooned in the past couple of years. If anything, schools now have more freedom to ignore wealth in admissions.

Endowments do not work that way. Remember endowments are meant to last for several hundred years. You make very few decisions in any given year that really impact the endowment. At best schools pull 2.5 to 4% a year from their endowment. The market is good this year but even if you had 500 million in gains you have maybe 10-15 million in new spending. That is already earmarked for something else. A building, lab, more land, dorm. And colleges would not spend all of that because they know the market moves up and down.

Full pay kids are the lifeblood of almost every school. Nothing will change.

Say this again for the people in the back:

“Full pay kids are the lifeblood of almost every school. Nothing will change.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a Yale graduate. I was a regular middle class kid from a public high school (both my parents were teachers, so maybe on the lower edge of upper middle class). I had a very good experience at Yale, got good grades, married a classmate, went to an R1 state university for my PhD, and I have a nice professional life.

Most of my friends from Yale are like me. MC or UMC kids who became professionals. We mostly married each other and we have nice lives.

But, there was another Yale that we had nothing to do with. The Yale that was filled with rich, well-connected kids who all knew each other from prep schools, summer camps, country clubs. They pretty much hung out with each other at Yale and with their high school friends from other colleges. After graduation, they got jobs through connections, worked for family companies, married each other. Where they went to college didn’t really matter. The ones from Yale and the ones who went to Michigan or Emory are all still rich and all still friends.

If your kid wants to go to an Ivy, that is a nice dream and they should pursue it. But, it’s not likely to be transformational. Upper middle class kids are mostly going to become upper middle class adults. Rich, well-connected kids are mostly going to become rich, well-connected adults. A few from each group will float up or down.

I don’t get the obsession with who gets into the Ivy League schools. That is not where class change happens. A Yale full of nice upper middle class kids will mostly produce professionals and academics but not an outsized number of the rich or powerful in society. That is fine but I’m not sure it’s worth fighting each other over.

I went to Dartmouth and this is spot on. A few people crossed boundaries due to sports teams but most of us stayed with the social classes we were born into and are now UMC professionals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a Yale graduate. I was a regular middle class kid from a public high school (both my parents were teachers, so maybe on the lower edge of upper middle class). I had a very good experience at Yale, got good grades, married a classmate, went to an R1 state university for my PhD, and I have a nice professional life.

Most of my friends from Yale are like me. MC or UMC kids who became professionals. We mostly married each other and we have nice lives.

But, there was another Yale that we had nothing to do with. The Yale that was filled with rich, well-connected kids who all knew each other from prep schools, summer camps, country clubs. They pretty much hung out with each other at Yale and with their high school friends from other colleges. After graduation, they got jobs through connections, worked for family companies, married each other. Where they went to college didn’t really matter. The ones from Yale and the ones who went to Michigan or Emory are all still rich and all still friends.

If your kid wants to go to an Ivy, that is a nice dream and they should pursue it. But, it’s not likely to be transformational. Upper middle class kids are mostly going to become upper middle class adults. Rich, well-connected kids are mostly going to become rich, well-connected adults. A few from each group will float up or down.

I don’t get the obsession with who gets into the Ivy League schools. That is not where class change happens. A Yale full of nice upper middle class kids will mostly produce professionals and academics but not an outsized number of the rich or powerful in society. That is fine but I’m not sure it’s worth fighting each other over.

I went to Dartmouth and this is spot on. A few people crossed boundaries due to sports teams but most of us stayed with the social classes we were born into and are now UMC professionals.

Even more reason for wealthy connected people to not need legacies. If it doesn't matter where they go to school because they end up marrying each other from their family connections, then there's no reason for legacies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Endowments do not work that way. Remember endowments are meant to last for several hundred years. You make very few decisions in any given year that really impact the endowment.

And beyond that, the vast majority of a school's endowment is restricted in how the money may be spent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are going to see more and more reports like this, and school like the Big 3 are going to take college admissions hit as a result. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. Slowly but surely, it will happen.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2023/08/07/georgetown-admissions-advantage-report

I doubt it. Because the big 3 are dominated by wealthy kids. Going to elite colleges. Why would that change? The reports just revealed what was already long known, if unofficially.

Are you dense? Being “long known” is one thing. Being talked about and criticized in the open is another. There will be more and more pressure on colleges to rethink how they evaluate candidates, especially with the demise of race-based admissions. This will only hurt, not help, private school applications.

It’s kinda cool.

It will not change. Someone has to pay for college. These students do. No I do not think there will be any hit. If anything I think this group will grow for most colleges not shrink.

Only if the market crashes. Endowments have ballooned in the past couple of years. If anything, schools now have more freedom to ignore wealth in admissions.

So you actually think that colleges with large endowments are going to “ignore wealth in admissions”? If so, you are incredibly naive.

They are more free to now than ever ever before. MIT JHU CMU and Amherst have already made that decision.

A few schools have/will eliminate legacy admissions. Many won’t. That has nothing to do with the size of the endowments. These schools will continue to disproportionately admit wealthy students (legacy or not).

The schools doing it are the ones who can afford to and it is because their endowments are big enough to support increased financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are going to see more and more reports like this, and school like the Big 3 are going to take college admissions hit as a result. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. Slowly but surely, it will happen.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2023/08/07/georgetown-admissions-advantage-report

Oh, like similar articles like these that were written 4 or 5 years ago?

https://gen.medium.com/the-dirty-secret-of-elite-college-admissions-d41077df670e

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/anonymousadmissions/college-admissions-scam-felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-ivy

Yeah, a lot changed after these articles were published