Difference(s) between AAP in center vs non-center schools (in higher SES zone)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question: what are the high-SES schools/school zones?

Pyramids: McLean, Langley, Oakton, Madison, Woodson. Maybe some others?

But not all elementary schools and middle schools in these pyramids are great. I don't know all of them well enough to be specific. Maybe someone else can elaborate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell LIV at a center means every student was formally found eligible by the committee. A student never loses that designation (you don’t reapply or ever get “kicked out”). By the rules, no other students are in this classes and they follow the official AAP curriculum and pacing.

A LLIV, by definition not at a center, is pretty much unregulated and run how the principal wants. This includes what students make up the class (which can change any time) as well as that they don’t have to follow the LIV curriculum or pacing. Some might still follow it, but not all do nor do they have to. The cluster model some schools use just has a small group of AAP students in an otherwise gen ed class, and therefore is unlikely to follow full AAP curriculum and pacing.

There are pros and cons to the tradeoffs between the two, the details of which depend on which center school and which base/local level iv. If at a great local school you may jot care about the center. You have to trust the principal a lot at a local since they can do pretty much whatever they want.

This is not completely accurate - LLIV classes use the AAP curriculum and must be taught by a teacher who has been through the training for AAP. However PP is correct in that the cluster model is a free for all. Some cluster schools just do differentiation - similar to when we were kids. My kids' ES uses the cluster model but teaches the AAP curriculum to all classes and then the kids switch for math instruction according to their math level (so there is one class that does advanced math, one that does slightly advanced math, and two that do grade level math). I thought it worked out really well because it meant my kid wasn't stuck with the same kids as last year* but still got advanced math and switching classes helped prep him for middle school.

* There was a LOT of bullying in the LLIV class and some of those girls needed to be separated. Before they switched to clustering, I was considering sending my son to the center to get away from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell LIV at a center means every student was formally found eligible by the committee. A student never loses that designation (you don’t reapply or ever get “kicked out”). By the rules, no other students are in this classes and they follow the official AAP curriculum and pacing.

A LLIV, by definition not at a center, is pretty much unregulated and run how the principal wants. This includes what students make up the class (which can change any time) as well as that they don’t have to follow the LIV curriculum or pacing. Some might still follow it, but not all do nor do they have to. The cluster model some schools use just has a small group of AAP students in an otherwise gen ed class, and therefore is unlikely to follow full AAP curriculum and pacing.

There are pros and cons to the tradeoffs between the two, the details of which depend on which center school and which base/local level iv. If at a great local school you may jot care about the center. You have to trust the principal a lot at a local since they can do pretty much whatever they want.

This is not completely accurate - LLIV classes use the AAP curriculum and must be taught by a teacher who has been through the training for AAP. However PP is correct in that the cluster model is a free for all. Some cluster schools just do differentiation - similar to when we were kids. My kids' ES uses the cluster model but teaches the AAP curriculum to all classes and then the kids switch for math instruction according to their math level (so there is one class that does advanced math, one that does slightly advanced math, and two that do grade level math). I thought it worked out really well because it meant my kid wasn't stuck with the same kids as last year* but still got advanced math and switching classes helped prep him for middle school.

* There was a LOT of bullying in the LLIV class and some of those girls needed to be separated. Before they switched to clustering, I was considering sending my son to the center to get away from them.

Respectfully but I don’t think this PP is completely accurate on curriculum in LLIV. Ask anyone with a LLIV doing E3 math. It sounds like this PP may be confusing how their own LLIV chooses to do things with all LLIV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell LIV at a center means every student was formally found eligible by the committee. A student never loses that designation (you don’t reapply or ever get “kicked out”). By the rules, no other students are in this classes and they follow the official AAP curriculum and pacing.

A LLIV, by definition not at a center, is pretty much unregulated and run how the principal wants. This includes what students make up the class (which can change any time) as well as that they don’t have to follow the LIV curriculum or pacing. Some might still follow it, but not all do nor do they have to. The cluster model some schools use just has a small group of AAP students in an otherwise gen ed class, and therefore is unlikely to follow full AAP curriculum and pacing.

There are pros and cons to the tradeoffs between the two, the details of which depend on which center school and which base/local level iv. If at a great local school you may jot care about the center. You have to trust the principal a lot at a local since they can do pretty much whatever they want.

This is not completely accurate - LLIV classes use the AAP curriculum and must be taught by a teacher who has been through the training for AAP. However PP is correct in that the cluster model is a free for all. Some cluster schools just do differentiation - similar to when we were kids. My kids' ES uses the cluster model but teaches the AAP curriculum to all classes and then the kids switch for math instruction according to their math level (so there is one class that does advanced math, one that does slightly advanced math, and two that do grade level math). I thought it worked out really well because it meant my kid wasn't stuck with the same kids as last year* but still got advanced math and switching classes helped prep him for middle school.

* There was a LOT of bullying in the LLIV class and some of those girls needed to be separated. Before they switched to clustering, I was considering sending my son to the center to get away from them.

Respectfully but I don’t think this PP is completely accurate on curriculum in LLIV. Ask anyone with a LLIV doing E3 math. It sounds like this PP may be confusing how their own LLIV chooses to do things with all LLIV.

NP. It probably varies by school. Ours uses the cluster model and the classes with AAP kids are taught LA using Ceasar's English and math has shifting of classrooms to break the grade into advanced math and GE math. Advanced math is the standard starting in 3rd covering enough ground that 6th grade is 7th grade math. The center school we would have gone to uses the same curriculum. We stayed because the base school had a much better principal, teachers we liked, and the kids could just walk to school instead of being bussed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell LIV at a center means every student was formally found eligible by the committee. A student never loses that designation (you don’t reapply or ever get “kicked out”). By the rules, no other students are in this classes and they follow the official AAP curriculum and pacing.

A LLIV, by definition not at a center, is pretty much unregulated and run how the principal wants. This includes what students make up the class (which can change any time) as well as that they don’t have to follow the LIV curriculum or pacing. Some might still follow it, but not all do nor do they have to. The cluster model some schools use just has a small group of AAP students in an otherwise gen ed class, and therefore is unlikely to follow full AAP curriculum and pacing.

There are pros and cons to the tradeoffs between the two, the details of which depend on which center school and which base/local level iv. If at a great local school you may jot care about the center. You have to trust the principal a lot at a local since they can do pretty much whatever they want.

This is not completely accurate - LLIV classes use the AAP curriculum and must be taught by a teacher who has been through the training for AAP. However PP is correct in that the cluster model is a free for all. Some cluster schools just do differentiation - similar to when we were kids. My kids' ES uses the cluster model but teaches the AAP curriculum to all classes and then the kids switch for math instruction according to their math level (so there is one class that does advanced math, one that does slightly advanced math, and two that do grade level math). I thought it worked out really well because it meant my kid wasn't stuck with the same kids as last year* but still got advanced math and switching classes helped prep him for middle school.

* There was a LOT of bullying in the LLIV class and some of those girls needed to be separated. Before they switched to clustering, I was considering sending my son to the center to get away from them.

Respectfully but I don’t think this PP is completely accurate on curriculum in LLIV. Ask anyone with a LLIV doing E3 math. It sounds like this PP may be confusing how their own LLIV chooses to do things with all LLIV.

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/elementary/advanced-academic-programs/full-time-advanced-academic-program talks about LLIV

And from this website, the quoted below, which says essentially what I said. https://www.fcps.edu/academics/elementary/advanced-academic-programs/advanced-academic-level-iv-school

Local Level IV and Level IV Center classes use the same full-time curriculum in the four core academic subject areas of language arts, math, science, and social studies. The teachers have the same professional development.

The difference is in the grouping practices. All students in Level IV Center classes have been found eligible through the central selection process, while Local Level IV classes may also include school-designated students for some or all four subject areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell LIV at a center means every student was formally found eligible by the committee. A student never loses that designation (you don’t reapply or ever get “kicked out”). By the rules, no other students are in this classes and they follow the official AAP curriculum and pacing.

A LLIV, by definition not at a center, is pretty much unregulated and run how the principal wants. This includes what students make up the class (which can change any time) as well as that they don’t have to follow the LIV curriculum or pacing. Some might still follow it, but not all do nor do they have to. The cluster model some schools use just has a small group of AAP students in an otherwise gen ed class, and therefore is unlikely to follow full AAP curriculum and pacing.

There are pros and cons to the tradeoffs between the two, the details of which depend on which center school and which base/local level iv. If at a great local school you may jot care about the center. You have to trust the principal a lot at a local since they can do pretty much whatever they want.

This is not completely accurate - LLIV classes use the AAP curriculum and must be taught by a teacher who has been through the training for AAP. However PP is correct in that the cluster model is a free for all. Some cluster schools just do differentiation - similar to when we were kids. My kids' ES uses the cluster model but teaches the AAP curriculum to all classes and then the kids switch for math instruction according to their math level (so there is one class that does advanced math, one that does slightly advanced math, and two that do grade level math). I thought it worked out really well because it meant my kid wasn't stuck with the same kids as last year* but still got advanced math and switching classes helped prep him for middle school.

* There was a LOT of bullying in the LLIV class and some of those girls needed to be separated. Before they switched to clustering, I was considering sending my son to the center to get away from them.

Respectfully but I don’t think this PP is completely accurate on curriculum in LLIV. Ask anyone with a LLIV doing E3 math. It sounds like this PP may be confusing how their own LLIV chooses to do things with all LLIV.

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/elementary/advanced-academic-programs/full-time-advanced-academic-program talks about LLIV

And from this website, the quoted below, which says essentially what I said. https://www.fcps.edu/academics/elementary/advanced-academic-programs/advanced-academic-level-iv-school

Local Level IV and Level IV Center classes use the same full-time curriculum in the four core academic subject areas of language arts, math, science, and social studies. The teachers have the same professional development.

The difference is in the grouping practices. All students in Level IV Center classes have been found eligible through the central selection process, while Local Level IV classes may also include school-designated students for some or all four subject areas.

That is the quote out there but again, that does not account for E3 math which our LLIV as well as some others are doing. You can find previous posts about it.

Does that mean all LLIV have different curriculum from LIV? No.

But it means that not all LLIV follow the same curriculum as LIV.

That has been my point all along - LLIV varies depending on how the principal wants to run it. Centers get run by the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell LIV at a center means every student was formally found eligible by the committee. A student never loses that designation (you don’t reapply or ever get “kicked out”). By the rules, no other students are in this classes and they follow the official AAP curriculum and pacing.

A LLIV, by definition not at a center, is pretty much unregulated and run how the principal wants. This includes what students make up the class (which can change any time) as well as that they don’t have to follow the LIV curriculum or pacing. Some might still follow it, but not all do nor do they have to. The cluster model some schools use just has a small group of AAP students in an otherwise gen ed class, and therefore is unlikely to follow full AAP curriculum and pacing.

There are pros and cons to the tradeoffs between the two, the details of which depend on which center school and which base/local level iv. If at a great local school you may jot care about the center. You have to trust the principal a lot at a local since they can do pretty much whatever they want.

This is not completely accurate - LLIV classes use the AAP curriculum and must be taught by a teacher who has been through the training for AAP. However PP is correct in that the cluster model is a free for all. Some cluster schools just do differentiation - similar to when we were kids. My kids' ES uses the cluster model but teaches the AAP curriculum to all classes and then the kids switch for math instruction according to their math level (so there is one class that does advanced math, one that does slightly advanced math, and two that do grade level math). I thought it worked out really well because it meant my kid wasn't stuck with the same kids as last year* but still got advanced math and switching classes helped prep him for middle school.

* There was a LOT of bullying in the LLIV class and some of those girls needed to be separated. Before they switched to clustering, I was considering sending my son to the center to get away from them.

Respectfully but I don’t think this PP is completely accurate on curriculum in LLIV. Ask anyone with a LLIV doing E3 math. It sounds like this PP may be confusing how their own LLIV chooses to do things with all LLIV.

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/elementary/advanced-academic-programs/full-time-advanced-academic-program talks about LLIV

And from this website, the quoted below, which says essentially what I said. https://www.fcps.edu/academics/elementary/advanced-academic-programs/advanced-academic-level-iv-school

Local Level IV and Level IV Center classes use the same full-time curriculum in the four core academic subject areas of language arts, math, science, and social studies. The teachers have the same professional development.

The difference is in the grouping practices. All students in Level IV Center classes have been found eligible through the central selection process, while Local Level IV classes may also include school-designated students for some or all four subject areas.

That is the quote out there but again, that does not account for E3 math which our LLIV as well as some others are doing. You can find previous posts about it.

Does that mean all LLIV have different curriculum from LIV? No.

But it means that not all LLIV follow the same curriculum as LIV.

That has been my point all along - LLIV varies depending on how the principal wants to run it. Centers get run by the rules.

Sorry for my naivete but what is E3 math? It sounds like some folks at LLIV want to suggest it can be a very good experience, whereas others want to say it can sometimes be less rigorous, and it will depend on principal, teachers, etc. Both valid points. I suppose what a parent wants depends on their goals. I'm guessing that centers are preferable for those who want to be very sure the child is getting the AAP curriculum and will progress at a certain pace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell LIV at a center means every student was formally found eligible by the committee. A student never loses that designation (you don’t reapply or ever get “kicked out”). By the rules, no other students are in this classes and they follow the official AAP curriculum and pacing.

A LLIV, by definition not at a center, is pretty much unregulated and run how the principal wants. This includes what students make up the class (which can change any time) as well as that they don’t have to follow the LIV curriculum or pacing. Some might still follow it, but not all do nor do they have to. The cluster model some schools use just has a small group of AAP students in an otherwise gen ed class, and therefore is unlikely to follow full AAP curriculum and pacing.

There are pros and cons to the tradeoffs between the two, the details of which depend on which center school and which base/local level iv. If at a great local school you may jot care about the center. You have to trust the principal a lot at a local since they can do pretty much whatever they want.

This is not completely accurate - LLIV classes use the AAP curriculum and must be taught by a teacher who has been through the training for AAP. However PP is correct in that the cluster model is a free for all. Some cluster schools just do differentiation - similar to when we were kids. My kids' ES uses the cluster model but teaches the AAP curriculum to all classes and then the kids switch for math instruction according to their math level (so there is one class that does advanced math, one that does slightly advanced math, and two that do grade level math). I thought it worked out really well because it meant my kid wasn't stuck with the same kids as last year* but still got advanced math and switching classes helped prep him for middle school.

* There was a LOT of bullying in the LLIV class and some of those girls needed to be separated. Before they switched to clustering, I was considering sending my son to the center to get away from them.

Again, some of the "rules" are school specific. At our center school, the Gen Ed kids doing advanced Math just joined the AAP class for Math time.

[Anonymous]

OP, it's gar too early for you to think about this for your perfectly average child. Once you get to the school, get to know parents with older children, you'll hear all about the pros vs cons of LLIV vs AAP at your school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's gar too early for you to think about this for your perfectly average child. Once you get to the school, get to know parents with older children, you'll hear all about the pros vs cons of LLIV vs AAP at your school.

Who are you to say what's too early?

[Anonymous]

Just a notes— LLIV is expanding really quickly in some areas. Lots of teachers with no AAP training are teaching LLIV because there just aren’t enough people with the gifted endorsement at each school.

You have 5 years to take the classes, technically, but since COVID the AAP office hasn’t been enforcing that. It’s the equivalent of 15 credit hours to get the endorsement from the district. (There’s also a state endorsement you can get through college/university classes.)

This is true for some center teachers as well, but much less often.

So while the website says LLIV and center teachers have the same PD— in practice, that’s not true in many cases.

[Anonymous]

Anyone Teaching has taken a class on teaching kids who are gifted and kids with disabilities, it is a required class for education majors. I have no idea what the additional classes might be that people keep mentioning. AAP Teachers might have some additional training but I seriously doubt that the cert is anything special. It is probably training in the curriculum that FCPS uses for LIV.

Our school added LLIV two years ago and is using the Cluster Model. DC was in 4th grade, so there is no LLIV for his group, but the Teacher told the parents at the Open House that every Teacher at the school was trained on the AAP curriculum so that every Teacher could teach the LIV curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's gar too early for you to think about this for your perfectly average child. Once you get to the school, get to know parents with older children, you'll hear all about the pros vs cons of LLIV vs AAP at your school.

Who are you to say what's too early?

Worrying about LIV in first grade is early, given that LIV doesn’t start until 3rd grade and has a selection process.