Kenmore or Swanson?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Objectively, the test scores and student success rates are much higher at Swanson and it is not close. Kenmore is a nicer building and it is more diverse - both very good things. We have a few friends whose kids went to Kenmore, and two of the families pulled them out for private school because their kids were not learning and they were worried they would not be prepared for high school.

This is because there is a much higher ELL and low SES population at Kenmore. If you compare higher SES white students, the performance is about the same.

My friends who took their kid out of Kenmore said that the big problem was that the teachers had to spend so much time on the ELL population that the other students were often idle and not learning.

Maybe that’s how they justify their decision. It’s simply not true, this isn’t ES. A lot of MS requires kids to work independently, especially with the double periods. The teachers spend about half the class teaching and then the students are expected to work on assignments during the second half, with the teachers available to answer questions and help if asked. The ELL kids don’t get extra instruction from the lead teachers or extra attention from them. Maybe their kid wasn’t ready for that much independent time and needed a more structured environment, or maybe the parents didn’t like this approach, which happens at all Arlington MS. That’s nothing to do with Kenmore or the ELL kids.

This isn't entirely accurate. My kids went to Swanson, and my daughter is a top student. She often had an assigned seat with the ELL students and was expected to help their interpreter follow what was happening in class, specifically science class. She didn't mind and didn't complain and learned to be empathetic to these kids' struggles, but she didn't learn much in some classes, and this is definitely a feature in middle school. Now she's in high school, and it doesn't happen at all.

This was my child’s experience at Kenmore as well, but not just for science. It was a very real problem and the school did nothing about it.

[Anonymous]

Let me give it to you straight. Swanson is a way better school. That being said all the middle schools in Arlington suck. They are not rigorous at all and barely prepare you for high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me give it to you straight. Swanson is a way better school. That being said all the middle schools in Arlington suck. They are not rigorous at all and barely prepare you for high school.

Agree that Swanson is a much better school. My son went to Swanson and is doing very well at W-L now. Two friends who are at W-L with him went to Kenmore, and they were completely unprepared for the rigor of high school. Yes, Kenmore is a nicer building, but I really don’t care about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me give it to you straight. Swanson is a way better school. That being said all the middle schools in Arlington suck. They are not rigorous at all and barely prepare you for high school.

Agree that Swanson is a much better school. My son went to Swanson and is doing very well at W-L now. Two friends who are at W-L with him went to Kenmore, and they were completely unprepared for the rigor of high school. Yes, Kenmore is a nicer building, but I really don’t care about that.

Yeah sure. It couldn’t possibly be anything to do with the individual students. The curriculum and amount of rigor, or lack there of, is not different at the MS level. It’s just not. Parents can blame the schools, but that doesn’t make it so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me give it to you straight. Swanson is a way better school. That being said all the middle schools in Arlington suck. They are not rigorous at all and barely prepare you for high school.

Agree that Swanson is a much better school. My son went to Swanson and is doing very well at W-L now. Two friends who are at W-L with him went to Kenmore, and they were completely unprepared for the rigor of high school. Yes, Kenmore is a nicer building, but I really don’t care about that.

Yeah sure. It couldn’t possibly be anything to do with the individual students. The curriculum and amount of rigor, or lack there of, is not different at the MS level. It’s just not. Parents can blame the schools, but that doesn’t make it so.

My kids didn’t go to Kenmore but I have some friends whose kids went to Kenmore - some stayed for all three years, others moved to other schools. The common complaint among nearly all of them was that the teachers were mostly focused on getting everyone to the bare minimum passing on standardized tests. That is much harder to do in Kenmore, where half the school is ESL. So the students who already were above passing did not get much attention.

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure any kids get a lot of individual attention at the MS level, unless there’s a problem. This isn’t ES. The test scores for non EL kids don’t bear out the complaint that kids at Kenmore are only learning the bare minimum because they’re being held back by EL peers, even if there are more of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Objectively, the test scores and student success rates are much higher at Swanson and it is not close. Kenmore is a nicer building and it is more diverse - both very good things. We have a few friends whose kids went to Kenmore, and two of the families pulled them out for private school because their kids were not learning and they were worried they would not be prepared for high school.

This is because there is a much higher ELL and low SES population at Kenmore. If you compare higher SES white students, the performance is about the same.

My friends who took their kid out of Kenmore said that the big problem was that the teachers had to spend so much time on the ELL population that the other students were often idle and not learning.

Maybe that’s how they justify their decision. It’s simply not true, this isn’t ES. A lot of MS requires kids to work independently, especially with the double periods. The teachers spend about half the class teaching and then the students are expected to work on assignments during the second half, with the teachers available to answer questions and help if asked. The ELL kids don’t get extra instruction from the lead teachers or extra attention from them. Maybe their kid wasn’t ready for that much independent time and needed a more structured environment, or maybe the parents didn’t like this approach, which happens at all Arlington MS. That’s nothing to do with Kenmore or the ELL kids.

This isn't entirely accurate. My kids went to Swanson, and my daughter is a top student. She often had an assigned seat with the ELL students and was expected to help their interpreter follow what was happening in class, specifically science class. She didn't mind and didn't complain and learned to be empathetic to these kids' struggles, but she didn't learn much in some classes, and this is definitely a feature in middle school. Now she's in high school, and it doesn't happen at all.

That’s totally inappropriate and has never happened to my kid at Kenmore. My kid reports that the kids who talk and causes trouble aren’t ELL kids at all. Maybe some classes get the ELL cluster and others don’t? No idea, but it’s never another student’s responsibility to prioritize assisting an ELL student over their own learning. Ever. Wonder if APS is aware this is happening? WTF

I’m a MS teacher and have worked at 2 schools in APS in the last 12 years. It is almost never the ELL kids disrupting classes. I’ve had several ELL kids with attendance/truancy issues, but none who were disruptive while in class.

I’ve never seen or heard of a teacher asking a student to help an interpreter and cannot imagine how that could be happening to the same student in multiple classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Objectively, the test scores and student success rates are much higher at Swanson and it is not close. Kenmore is a nicer building and it is more diverse - both very good things. We have a few friends whose kids went to Kenmore, and two of the families pulled them out for private school because their kids were not learning and they were worried they would not be prepared for high school.

This is because there is a much higher ELL and low SES population at Kenmore. If you compare higher SES white students, the performance is about the same.

My friends who took their kid out of Kenmore said that the big problem was that the teachers had to spend so much time on the ELL population that the other students were often idle and not learning.

Maybe that’s how they justify their decision. It’s simply not true, this isn’t ES. A lot of MS requires kids to work independently, especially with the double periods. The teachers spend about half the class teaching and then the students are expected to work on assignments during the second half, with the teachers available to answer questions and help if asked. The ELL kids don’t get extra instruction from the lead teachers or extra attention from them. Maybe their kid wasn’t ready for that much independent time and needed a more structured environment, or maybe the parents didn’t like this approach, which happens at all Arlington MS. That’s nothing to do with Kenmore or the ELL kids.

This isn't entirely accurate. My kids went to Swanson, and my daughter is a top student. She often had an assigned seat with the ELL students and was expected to help their interpreter follow what was happening in class, specifically science class. She didn't mind and didn't complain and learned to be empathetic to these kids' struggles, but she didn't learn much in some classes, and this is definitely a feature in middle school. Now she's in high school, and it doesn't happen at all.

That’s totally inappropriate and has never happened to my kid at Kenmore. My kid reports that the kids who talk and causes trouble aren’t ELL kids at all. Maybe some classes get the ELL cluster and others don’t? No idea, but it’s never another student’s responsibility to prioritize assisting an ELL student over their own learning. Ever. Wonder if APS is aware this is happening? WTF

I’m a MS teacher and have worked at 2 schools in APS in the last 12 years. It is almost never the ELL kids disrupting classes. I’ve had several ELL kids with attendance/truancy issues, but none who were disruptive while in class.

I’ve never seen or heard of a teacher asking a student to help an interpreter and cannot imagine how that could be happening to the same student in multiple classes.

I am the PP whose kid helped the interpreters at Swanson, and yes it happened. Fine if you can't imagine it, but I also have a neighbor whose son 2 years older had the same experience. It may mot be widespread, but it is common.

[Anonymous]

My son did fine at Kenmore. He’s “gifted” (I hate that term) in all 4 of the subjects that APS id’s, and he also has an IEP. His needs were addressed and he grew a lot academically over the 3 years. As a 9th grade teacher, my impression of MOST students is that they come out of middle school underprepared for HS. It’s a rough adjustment for the majority of them.

[Anonymous]

Neither. Move to 22207 and go to Williamsburg. That school blows too, but it's a nicer neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d focus more on HS.

But middle school matters. Our friend's son went to Kenmore and then W-L, and they found he was totally unprepared for the rigor of W-L.

Oh be quiet. That’s on your friend’s son, not Kenmore. Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Objectively, the test scores and student success rates are much higher at Swanson and it is not close. Kenmore is a nicer building and it is more diverse - both very good things. We have a few friends whose kids went to Kenmore, and two of the families pulled them out for private school because their kids were not learning and they were worried they would not be prepared for high school.

This is because there is a much higher ELL and low SES population at Kenmore. If you compare higher SES white students, the performance is about the same.

My friends who took their kid out of Kenmore said that the big problem was that the teachers had to spend so much time on the ELL population that the other students were often idle and not learning.

And that’s because your friends are snobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me give it to you straight. Swanson is a way better school. That being said all the middle schools in Arlington suck. They are not rigorous at all and barely prepare you for high school.

Agree that Swanson is a much better school. My son went to Swanson and is doing very well at W-L now. Two friends who are at W-L with him went to Kenmore, and they were completely unprepared for the rigor of high school. Yes, Kenmore is a nicer building, but I really don’t care about that.

Yeah sure. It couldn’t possibly be anything to do with the individual students. The curriculum and amount of rigor, or lack there of, is not different at the MS level. It’s just not. Parents can blame the schools, but that doesn’t make it so.

There are dramatic differences between the various middle schools in APS. The curriculum is the same purportedly, but the amount of rigor is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me give it to you straight. Swanson is a way better school. That being said all the middle schools in Arlington suck. They are not rigorous at all and barely prepare you for high school.

Agree that Swanson is a much better school. My son went to Swanson and is doing very well at W-L now. Two friends who are at W-L with him went to Kenmore, and they were completely unprepared for the rigor of high school. Yes, Kenmore is a nicer building, but I really don’t care about that.

Yeah sure. It couldn’t possibly be anything to do with the individual students. The curriculum and amount of rigor, or lack there of, is not different at the MS level. It’s just not. Parents can blame the schools, but that doesn’t make it so.

There are dramatic differences between the various middle schools in APS. The curriculum is the same purportedly, but the amount of rigor is not.

You make no sense. If the curriculum is the same, the “rigor” cannot be different. A student in Algebra at Kenmore is learning the same material and has the same expectations as a student at any other MS. I think your son’s friend is the issue, not where he attended MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Objectively, the test scores and student success rates are much higher at Swanson and it is not close. Kenmore is a nicer building and it is more diverse - both very good things. We have a few friends whose kids went to Kenmore, and two of the families pulled them out for private school because their kids were not learning and they were worried they would not be prepared for high school.

This is because there is a much higher ELL and low SES population at Kenmore. If you compare higher SES white students, the performance is about the same.

My friends who took their kid out of Kenmore said that the big problem was that the teachers had to spend so much time on the ELL population that the other students were often idle and not learning.

And that’s because your friends are snobs.

Maybe, but it’s probably true. I’d be a snob if my kid gets an education. I was pick Swanson over Kenmore 1000 times. I have friends who have kids there, and after the bullying incident of the special needs child a few years ago, all I’ve heard is that parents and kids are very happy. What I hear from Kenmore parents is that it’s their only option.