Math counts, math clubs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the parent (usually) who is coaching. I’m familiar with one group that is INTENSE. Every Saturday and day off school they are drilling/practicing. Some are in it for fun and enrichment, others are in it to WIN. You could try a meeting or two and see if it fits what you’re looking for.

Those would only be at Longfellow/Basis/Rachel Carson, who vy to win the Mathcounts state championship every year. It's not so crazy at most schools.

By "Basis" are you referring to BASIS Independent McLean? I didn't see them at the state championship this year. Did they not participate or did they not qualify at Chapter?

I don't think they were registered. Mathcounts lists everyone by state on their website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the parent (usually) who is coaching. I’m familiar with one group that is INTENSE. Every Saturday and day off school they are drilling/practicing. Some are in it for fun and enrichment, others are in it to WIN. You could try a meeting or two and see if it fits what you’re looking for.

Those would only be at Longfellow/Basis/Rachel Carson, who vy to win the Mathcounts state championship every year. It's not so crazy at most schools.

Do you blame them? Winning is the golden ticket to TJ, especially with the revised selection process, since you can't just buy some test answers to stand out.

It is the opposite. Winners are not selected, while students who buy essay prep will get in over them. But thanks for trying to shoehorn in your talking points.
We will see what happens next year, as the Virginia team at nationals had two 7th graders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the parent (usually) who is coaching. I’m familiar with one group that is INTENSE. Every Saturday and day off school they are drilling/practicing. Some are in it for fun and enrichment, others are in it to WIN. You could try a meeting or two and see if it fits what you’re looking for.

Those would only be at Longfellow/Basis/Rachel Carson, who vy to win the Mathcounts state championship every year. It's not so crazy at most schools.

Do you blame them? Winning is the golden ticket to TJ, especially with the revised selection process, since you can't just buy some test answers to stand out.

It is the opposite. Winners are not selected, while students who buy essay prep will get in over them. But thanks for trying to shoehorn in your talking points.
We will see what happens next year, as the Virginia team at nationals had two 7th graders.

However, I think winners can get in in the sophomore round.

[Anonymous]

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

For example, there are significant numbers of students who could solve some AIME problems but not actually be able to finish Mathcounts rounds because of the very short allotted time. It is sad that they cannot have a chance to display their deep problem solving skills simply because they cannot make it far enough in the competition

If they can solve AIME problems, then they can display their deep problem solving skills in the AMC 10/12 exams

AMC 10/12 has the same problem -- using harsh time limits to differentiate contestants.

AIME has the same problem but to a lesser extent.

However, there are TJHSST and MBMT regional math contests, which are harder and less time-pressured than Chapter Mathcounts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

Ignore this poster's hyperbole. Memorizing all the material described is for the extreme winners, not "successful competitors"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

For example, there are significant numbers of students who could solve some AIME problems but not actually be able to finish Mathcounts rounds because of the very short allotted time. It is sad that they cannot have a chance to display their deep problem solving skills simply because they cannot make it far enough in the competition

If they can solve AIME problems, then they can display their deep problem solving skills in the AMC 10/12 exams

AMC 10/12 has the same problem -- using harsh time limits to differentiate contestants.

AIME has the same problem but to a lesser extent.

However, there are TJHSST and MBMT regional math contests, which are harder and less time-pressured than Chapter Mathcounts.

If the time limit is the only barrier to success in the AMC 10/12-AIME-USA(J)MO sequence, then it should be noted that kids can also qualify for AIME by doing well in the USAMTS exams. https://www.usamts.org/
These are essentially untimed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

For example, there are significant numbers of students who could solve some AIME problems but not actually be able to finish Mathcounts rounds because of the very short allotted time. It is sad that they cannot have a chance to display their deep problem solving skills simply because they cannot make it far enough in the competition

If they can solve AIME problems, then they can display their deep problem solving skills in the AMC 10/12 exams

AMC 10/12 has the same problem -- using harsh time limits to differentiate contestants.

AIME has the same problem but to a lesser extent.

However, there are TJHSST and MBMT regional math contests, which are harder and less time-pressured than Chapter Mathcounts.

If the time limit is the only barrier to success in the AMC 10/12-AIME-USA(J)MO sequence, then it should be noted that kids can also qualify for AIME by doing well in the USAMTS exams. https://www.usamts.org/
These are essentially untimed.

Thank you for this contribution. I hadn't been aware of USAMTS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

I'll add to that all the factorials up to 10! = 3628800 as well as the factorization of interesting integers, like 111 = 3 x 37 and 1001 = 7 x 11 x 13. A lot of Mathcounts problems are set up with "cutesy" numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

Ignore this poster's hyperbole. Memorizing all the material described is for the extreme winners, not "successful competitors"

This is not hyperbole at all, LOL. Speed is a significant factor in MC success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

Ignore this poster's hyperbole. Memorizing all the material described is for the extreme winners, not "successful competitors"

This is not hyperbole at all, LOL. Speed is a significant factor in MC success.

The dropoff of scores at state is primarily because students run out of time on the sprint round.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

Ignore this poster's hyperbole. Memorizing all the material described is for the extreme winners, not "successful competitors"

This is not hyperbole at all, LOL. Speed is a significant factor in MC success.

It doesn't really matter. Mathcounts differentiates by individual rank and geography, not by performance. The competitiveness aspect is just a gimmick to trick competitive kids into studying and practice, not a legitimate marker of achievement.

The real value is in study and practice. By the time anyone successes or fails in competition, it's too late the change that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

Ignore this poster's hyperbole. Memorizing all the material described is for the extreme winners, not "successful competitors"

This is not hyperbole at all, LOL. Speed is a significant factor in MC success.

It doesn't really matter. Mathcounts differentiates by individual rank and geography, not by performance. The competitiveness aspect is just a gimmick to trick competitive kids into studying and practice, not a legitimate marker of achievement.

The real value is in study and practice. By the time anyone successes or fails in competition, it's too late the change that.

+1000

All these things that we put our DCs in at their ages are just to trick them into working hard and hardening skillsets into their muscle memory so that they can be prepared for adulthood. When DC is 40yo, he won't care that he placed 10th instead of 3rd at Mathcounts in 7th grade. But the problem solving skills he practiced will stay with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

Ignore this poster's hyperbole. Memorizing all the material described is for the extreme winners, not "successful competitors"

This is not hyperbole at all, LOL. Speed is a significant factor in MC success.

It doesn't really matter. Mathcounts differentiates by individual rank and geography, not by performance. The competitiveness aspect is just a gimmick to trick competitive kids into studying and practice, not a legitimate marker of achievement.

The real value is in study and practice. By the time anyone successes or fails in competition, it's too late the change that.

How is individual rank determined, if not by performance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

Ignore this poster's hyperbole. Memorizing all the material described is for the extreme winners, not "successful competitors"

This is not hyperbole at all, LOL. Speed is a significant factor in MC success.

It doesn't really matter. Mathcounts differentiates by individual rank and geography, not by performance. The competitiveness aspect is just a gimmick to trick competitive kids into studying and practice, not a legitimate marker of achievement.

The real value is in study and practice. By the time anyone successes or fails in competition, it's too late the change that.

How is individual rank determined, if not by performance?

That poster is just trying to get people to not practice speed so their own kid will be more competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these be good for a strong math student, but not one who is into competitions?
Are they fun or rote?

As other posters have said, it depends.

But I take a bit of an issue with your question. First off, "rote" is typically used as a derogatory term by those wanting to push their snakeoil "critical thinking" humbug. But let's apply the principle of charity here and assume by "rote" you mean that something is being repeated in order to learn it by heart.

Yes, actually, successful competitors end up memorizing things, including but not limited to:
- all squares until at least 27^2
- all cubes until at least 11^3
- all powers of two until at least 2^16
- Pascal's triangle until at least 6 choose k
- triangular numbers until at least 55
- all primitive Pythagorean triples until their sum exceeds 90
- Heronian triangles with small areas
- fraction to decimal conversion for powers of 2, for 3, 7, 9, and 11 (at least).

So if you think that, for instance, being asked to answer questions like "what's the hundredth digit after the period of 13/9" or "compute 32*38 in your head" is rote and you should use a calculator then Mathcounts is not for you.

A quick recall of math facts and a high level of fluency in mental arithmetic is however a characteristic of most famous mathematicians from Gauss to von Neumann.

Ignore this poster's hyperbole. Memorizing all the material described is for the extreme winners, not "successful competitors"

This is not hyperbole at all, LOL. Speed is a significant factor in MC success.

It doesn't really matter. Mathcounts differentiates by individual rank and geography, not by performance. The competitiveness aspect is just a gimmick to trick competitive kids into studying and practice, not a legitimate marker of achievement.

The real value is in study and practice. By the time anyone successes or fails in competition, it's too late the change that.

How is individual rank determined, if not by performance?

I think he is saying that it looks at individual ranks within a chapter to see who advances to state, and individual ranks within a state to advance to nationals.
AMC 10/12/USAMO looks at individual performance.