Math 4/5 eligibility criteria

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So roughly the top 10 percent

It's more like 40% and were not even at a wealthy school.

[Anonymous]

It looks like top 5% should definitely be in at CM. Top 10% is also likely. When you get to the 80th percentile, that's more dependent on which school your kid is at: how many CM classes are available and other students' scores.

If they're putting 60th percentile in CM, most of the kids in that school are probably lower SES and so the bar is much lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It looks like top 5% should definitely be in at CM. Top 10% is also likely. When you get to the 80th percentile, that's more dependent on which school your kid is at: how many CM classes are available and other students' scores.

If they're putting 60th percentile in CM, most of the kids in that school are probably lower SES and so the bar is much lower.

Okay, so you are assuming a perfect bell curve at every school. Even if a school has 40% of kids in compacted math, that does not mean they are going down to the 60th percentile on MAP-M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It looks like top 5% should definitely be in at CM. Top 10% is also likely. When you get to the 80th percentile, that's more dependent on which school your kid is at: how many CM classes are available and other students' scores.

If they're putting 60th percentile in CM, most of the kids in that school are probably lower SES and so the bar is much lower.

Oh, you are wrong. Why? Because at a high SES school, plenty of kids score below the 60th percentile but have parents INSISTING we accelerate them. So I would argue the "bar" is actually lower at high SES schools because at lower SES schools the educators are (more) in charge of these decisions and tend to leave kids that are solidly on grade level in on grade level math (as it should be).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So roughly the top 10 percent

It's more like 40% and were not even at a wealthy school.

At Wealthy Potomac ES all the kids qualify.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like top 5% should definitely be in at CM. Top 10% is also likely. When you get to the 80th percentile, that's more dependent on which school your kid is at: how many CM classes are available and other students' scores.

If they're putting 60th percentile in CM, most of the kids in that school are probably lower SES and so the bar is much lower.

Oh, you are wrong. Why? Because at a high SES school, plenty of kids score below the 60th percentile but have parents INSISTING we accelerate them. So I would argue the "bar" is actually lower at high SES schools because at lower SES schools the educators are (more) in charge of these decisions and tend to leave kids that are solidly on grade level in on grade level math (as it should be).

Sounds like at the high SES schools folks need to develop the backbone to tell parents No. Also, the grade level class should be sufficiently engaging and challenging for most students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like top 5% should definitely be in at CM. Top 10% is also likely. When you get to the 80th percentile, that's more dependent on which school your kid is at: how many CM classes are available and other students' scores.

If they're putting 60th percentile in CM, most of the kids in that school are probably lower SES and so the bar is much lower.

Okay, so you are assuming a perfect bell curve at every school. Even if a school has 40% of kids in compacted math, that does not mean they are going down to the 60th percentile on MAP-M.

I’m not making that assumption. Schools don’t have to fill every seat in CM. CM is supposed to be for students who can handle the accelerated instruction, as demonstrated by MAP and other criteria. So the school is not forced to dip into the 60th percentile. My argument is that because of local norming, lower SES schools may be allowing in 60th percentile students.

About the argument that high SES students’ parents almost force their 60th percentile kids into CM—that’s possible and I agree the school should get a backbone. 60th percentile is really not very good, and they are with students who are on top of the curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like top 5% should definitely be in at CM. Top 10% is also likely. When you get to the 80th percentile, that's more dependent on which school your kid is at: how many CM classes are available and other students' scores.

If they're putting 60th percentile in CM, most of the kids in that school are probably lower SES and so the bar is much lower.

Okay, so you are assuming a perfect bell curve at every school. Even if a school has 40% of kids in compacted math, that does not mean they are going down to the 60th percentile on MAP-M.

I’m not making that assumption. Schools don’t have to fill every seat in CM. CM is supposed to be for students who can handle the accelerated instruction, as demonstrated by MAP and other criteria. So the school is not forced to dip into the 60th percentile. My argument is that because of local norming, lower SES schools may be allowing in 60th percentile students.

About the argument that high SES students’ parents almost force their 60th percentile kids into CM—that’s possible and I agree the school should get a backbone. 60th percentile is really not very good, and they are with students who are on top of the curriculum.

I highly doubt thats true. Wealthy schools most likely have hardly any kids in the 60th percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It looks like top 5% should definitely be in at CM. Top 10% is also likely. When you get to the 80th percentile, that's more dependent on which school your kid is at: how many CM classes are available and other students' scores.

If they're putting 60th percentile in CM, most of the kids in that school are probably lower SES and so the bar is much lower.

No one has presented any evidence that anything like this is happening.

"Local norming" is used to keep high SES students out of magnets and let them be enriched with their home schools, because, the #1 thing that makes a school a "good school" isn't the curriculum or the teachers or the parents, it's the students. Teachers target their classroom average students, so classes with higher performing students do higher performance work than other classes, regardless of the name on the transcript.

If lower performing students are in CM, they will roll out to Math 6+ in 6th grade.
Higher performing students kept out of CM will test into AIM anyway. There is not that much difference between these levels of math, it's just repetition and spiral until Prealgebra.

[Anonymous]

Our son (Who is in high school now) initially didn’t get into Math4/5 in 4th grade. His Spring MAP M score in grade 3 was around 220.. and in same range in fall of 4th grade. But 4th grade MAP M in winter- he got 246. A week after the MAP test, we got a letter from school recommending him to be in Math 4/5. He didn’t look back ever since and he is in Poolesville magnet program now. So even if your son/daughter doesn’t get into compact math initially, there are chances that he/she can get into CM later if they perform good on math..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like top 5% should definitely be in at CM. Top 10% is also likely. When you get to the 80th percentile, that's more dependent on which school your kid is at: how many CM classes are available and other students' scores.

If they're putting 60th percentile in CM, most of the kids in that school are probably lower SES and so the bar is much lower.

Okay, so you are assuming a perfect bell curve at every school. Even if a school has 40% of kids in compacted math, that does not mean they are going down to the 60th percentile on MAP-M.

I’m not making that assumption. Schools don’t have to fill every seat in CM. CM is supposed to be for students who can handle the accelerated instruction, as demonstrated by MAP and other criteria. So the school is not forced to dip into the 60th percentile. My argument is that because of local norming, lower SES schools may be allowing in 60th percentile students.

About the argument that high SES students’ parents almost force their 60th percentile kids into CM—that’s possible and I agree the school should get a backbone. 60th percentile is really not very good, and they are with students who are on top of the curriculum.

I highly doubt thats true. Wealthy schools most likely have hardly any kids in the 60th percentile.

MCPS is pretty similar to national norms so 60% is common everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Correct answer is nobody knows

[Anonymous]

What are the math options? Is it just "compacted 4/5" or "4 the grade math"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are the math options? Is it just "compacted 4/5" or "4 the grade math"?

Yes

[Anonymous]

That or placement in the next grade's Math, which is a less known and much less utilized part of MCPS's tiered enrichment paradigm. It's supposed to be for real outliers, but get enough influential families involved in twisting a principal's arm and you get a whole class of AIM in 5th and [clap, clap] Kevin Bacon (I mean Algebra in 6th).