It’s Not Just Math and Reading: U.S. History Scores for 8th Graders Plunge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I recall watching, I think Jay Leno's show, where they went out onto the streets and asked random people simple US history questions, like when was WWII or the Vietnam war. The answers were sadly funny.

Just pointing out the obvious: they are showing you the dumbest ones and leaving the rest of the footage on the cutting room floor. Their goal is to show you the dumbest so you can feel superior and laugh at how stupid people are. It's nothing you can regard as representative of society in general.

according to that article, 1 in 3 cannot pass a US citizenship test, and those tests actually leave out a lot of actual US history.

There is a lot of daylight between the U.S. citizenship test and the type of questions they'd ask on Leno. And basically any test you'd care to reference necessarily leaves out more U.S. History than it includes. History is vast.

basic history questions like, "when was WWII or civil war"? They weren't asking hard questions. That's what made it sadly funny.

No, I did not go to an elite school. I went to a no name state u.

IMO, it's a symptom of schools letting kids matriculate without having basic knowledge, and that includes math, reading and history. And this has been going on for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I recall watching, I think Jay Leno's show, where they went out onto the streets and asked random people simple US history questions, like when was WWII or the Vietnam war. The answers were sadly funny.

Just pointing out the obvious: they are showing you the dumbest ones and leaving the rest of the footage on the cutting room floor. Their goal is to show you the dumbest so you can feel superior and laugh at how stupid people are. It's nothing you can regard as representative of society in general.

according to that article, 1 in 3 cannot pass a US citizenship test, and those tests actually leave out a lot of actual US history.

There is a lot of daylight between the U.S. citizenship test and the type of questions they'd ask on Leno. And basically any test you'd care to reference necessarily leaves out more U.S. History than it includes. History is vast.

basic history questions like, "when was WWII or civil war"? They weren't asking hard questions. That's what made it sadly funny.

No, I did not go to an elite school. I went to a no name state u.

IMO, it's a symptom of schools letting kids matriculate without having basic knowledge, and that includes math, reading and history. And this has been going on for decades.

The emphasis on dates always bugged me. Knowing the chronology -- the relationship of one event to another -- always seemed more relevant than knowing 1945 versus 1932 or whatever.

Now that you mention the Civil War, however, I agree that the number of people who don't know the basic cause of the civil war -- southern whites committing treason in defense of slavery -- is nuts. They'll say it was because of tariffs or Lincoln's desire to be a tyrant or some nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also got 4/5. I say this is why we don’t have to worry about controversial education topics - there’s plenty to cover that is not controversial. Focus on those first.

Yes, teaching kids about the Civil War and Holocaust is so controversial (if you're a white supremacist).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I recall watching, I think Jay Leno's show, where they went out onto the streets and asked random people simple US history questions, like when was WWII or the Vietnam war. The answers were sadly funny.

Just pointing out the obvious: they are showing you the dumbest ones and leaving the rest of the footage on the cutting room floor. Their goal is to show you the dumbest so you can feel superior and laugh at how stupid people are. It's nothing you can regard as representative of society in general.

according to that article, 1 in 3 cannot pass a US citizenship test, and those tests actually leave out a lot of actual US history.

There is a lot of daylight between the U.S. citizenship test and the type of questions they'd ask on Leno. And basically any test you'd care to reference necessarily leaves out more U.S. History than it includes. History is vast.

basic history questions like, "when was WWII or civil war"? They weren't asking hard questions. That's what made it sadly funny.

No, I did not go to an elite school. I went to a no name state u.

IMO, it's a symptom of schools letting kids matriculate without having basic knowledge, and that includes math, reading and history. And this has been going on for decades.

The emphasis on dates always bugged me. Knowing the chronology -- the relationship of one event to another -- always seemed more relevant than knowing 1945 versus 1932 or whatever.

Now that you mention the Civil War, however, I agree that the number of people who don't know the basic cause of the civil war -- southern whites committing treason in defense of slavery -- is nuts. They'll say it was because of tariffs or Lincoln's desire to be a tyrant or some nonsense.

For US history, I don't think it's a big ask for kids to know 1776, 1787, 1861-65, 1929, and 1941-45

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically, NCLB resulted in reallocation of instruction time away from social studies and science, towards reading and math… but those latter scores are down too!!

If schools improve decoding instruction in K-2, they can shift instructional time to more social studies and science in grades 3+. Many proponents of the "science of reading" think this approach is preferable.

Want better readers? Spend less time teaching kids to find the main idea, ‘Knowledge Gap’ author Natalie Wexler argues https://www.chalkbeat.org/2019/9/16/21108839/want-better-readers-spend-less-time-teaching-kids-to-find-the-main-idea-knowledge-gap-author-natalie

"She builds her case with cognitive science that suggests that once students have learned to sound out words — “decode” — the key to understanding a text is having solid background knowledge on the subject....

'We’ve been looking at that gap as a gap in skills. American elementary schools, and to some extent middle schools, have long approached reading comprehension as though it’s a matter of teaching generally applicable skills, like let’s practice finding the main idea and let’s practice making inferences. The theory is, it doesn’t really matter what content the kids are using to practice those skills; if they just get good at those skills they will be able to apply them eventually to any text that’s put in front of them, whether it’s on a standardized test or in high school.

That approach has been intensified in the last 20 years by the advent of high-stakes reading tests, because it looks like they’re measuring those skills. So teachers, policymakers, reformers have all assumed we should just double down on teaching those skills.

The problem is that, as cognitive scientists have known for decades, the most important factor in reading comprehension is not generally applicable skills like finding the main idea — it’s how much knowledge and vocabulary the reader has relating to the topic. So if we really want to boost reading comprehension, we should be doing the opposite of what we’re doing — especially in schools where test scores are low — which is cutting subjects like social studies and science that could actually increase students’ knowledge of the world and instead spending more time on these reading comprehension skills.'"

+2 Yes , you hit the nail on the head! This forced ‘find the main idea’ nonsense is overdone. They are wasting hours upon hours on this without focus on vocabulary and spelling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I recall watching, I think Jay Leno's show, where they went out onto the streets and asked random people simple US history questions, like when was WWII or the Vietnam war. The answers were sadly funny.

Just pointing out the obvious: they are showing you the dumbest ones and leaving the rest of the footage on the cutting room floor. Their goal is to show you the dumbest so you can feel superior and laugh at how stupid people are. It's nothing you can regard as representative of society in general.

according to that article, 1 in 3 cannot pass a US citizenship test, and those tests actually leave out a lot of actual US history.

There is a lot of daylight between the U.S. citizenship test and the type of questions they'd ask on Leno. And basically any test you'd care to reference necessarily leaves out more U.S. History than it includes. History is vast.

basic history questions like, "when was WWII or civil war"? They weren't asking hard questions. That's what made it sadly funny.

No, I did not go to an elite school. I went to a no name state u.

IMO, it's a symptom of schools letting kids matriculate without having basic knowledge, and that includes math, reading and history. And this has been going on for decades.

The emphasis on dates always bugged me. Knowing the chronology -- the relationship of one event to another -- always seemed more relevant than knowing 1945 versus 1932 or whatever.

Now that you mention the Civil War, however, I agree that the number of people who don't know the basic cause of the civil war -- southern whites committing treason in defense of slavery -- is nuts. They'll say it was because of tariffs or Lincoln's desire to be a tyrant or some nonsense.

For US history, I don't think it's a big ask for kids to know 1776, 1787, 1861-65, 1929, and 1941-45

1619, 1870, and 1920 are probably just as significant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/03/us/us-history-test-scores.html

Ironically, NCLB resulted in reallocation of instruction time away from social studies and science, towards reading and math… but those latter scores are down too!!

I got 4/5, missed the Henry Hudson one.

These are public school averages. Remember that public schools are required to take almost everyone, so their averages can never be as good as private schools or homeschoolers. Our local Title 1 school has lots of kids with the IQ of a slug and low test averages, but the spread of the scores is quite large with lots of other kids who do really well. If you aren't in a public, or you are but your kid is not one of those that has the IQ of a slug, it's not worth getting worked up over.

[Anonymous]

This is exactly why I'm a big fan of the Core Knowledge program - https://www.coreknowledge.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/EDH-a-change-in-our-way-of-thinking.pdf