Shouldn't university be free for some students?

[Anonymous]

Americans have gotten into this very bad habit of thinking of themselves primarily as members of racial groups which operate almost like union membership. But no one owes you anything because you have no right to compel another human being to give you their property just because you think the course of history somehow disadvantaged you in a special way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reparations is probably one of the dumbest ideas out there. Where does it end? Any identity group that was harmed by government policy at some point in the distant past now effectively gets to confiscate the wealth of other identity groups for their own enrichment? You know who also got screwed by the “system”- families who lost their fathers, brothers and sons in various wars? Why don’t we send those families reparations?

We are on a path to civil war if we persist with this illogical mode of thought where the descendants of one group owe something to the descendants of another. I don’t owe black people anything and they need to keep their hands out of my pocket. And they owe me nothing.

I kind of agree with this. What about all women? Women have been institutionally marginalized and discriminated against for centuries. Where’s my free education and reparations?

Ideally nobody would have to pay for state public universities.

There is no such thing as “nobody would have to pay.” Somebody has to pay. Doesn’t it make sense that it should be the person receiving the goods and services?

I think it’s weird to think of college as a commodity. Do we think of a primary education as a “good or service”?

Students earn degrees by doing the work. What you are paying for is an opportunity, if you pay for college and don’t work, you don’t get a degree.

It makes sense for us to collectively pay for public college education, as we pay for k-12, because we as society benefit from people studying to become teachers, engineers, nurses, etc. The individual invests their sweat equity.

People who wanted to pay for the prestige of a private university could still do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That already exists, they’re called scholarships.

And grants. One of my former students only has to pay a few hundred dollars for his 4 yr education. If his classmates and my other former students applied themselves, they’d be on the same boat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reparations is probably one of the dumbest ideas out there. Where does it end? Any identity group that was harmed by government policy at some point in the distant past now effectively gets to confiscate the wealth of other identity groups for their own enrichment? You know who also got screwed by the “system”- families who lost their fathers, brothers and sons in various wars? Why don’t we send those families reparations?

We are on a path to civil war if we persist with this illogical mode of thought where the descendants of one group owe something to the descendants of another. I don’t owe black people anything and they need to keep their hands out of my pocket. And they owe me nothing.

Agree

I kind of agree with this. What about all women? Women have been institutionally marginalized and discriminated against for centuries. Where’s my free education and reparations?

Ideally nobody would have to pay for state public universities.

Agreed. I think trade school should be free too. Not everyone wants to or needs to go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reparations is probably one of the dumbest ideas out there. Where does it end? Any identity group that was harmed by government policy at some point in the distant past now effectively gets to confiscate the wealth of other identity groups for their own enrichment? You know who also got screwed by the “system”- families who lost their fathers, brothers and sons in various wars? Why don’t we send those families reparations?

We are on a path to civil war if we persist with this illogical mode of thought where the descendants of one group owe something to the descendants of another. I don’t owe black people anything and they need to keep their hands out of my pocket. And they owe me nothing.

I kind of agree with this. What about all women? Women have been institutionally marginalized and discriminated against for centuries. Where’s my free education and reparations?

Ideally nobody would have to pay for state public universities.

There is no such thing as “nobody would have to pay.” Somebody has to pay. Doesn’t it make sense that it should be the person receiving the goods and services?

I think it’s weird to think of college as a commodity. Do we think of a primary education as a “good or service”?

Students earn degrees by doing the work. What you are paying for is an opportunity, if you pay for college and don’t work, you don’t get a degree.

It makes sense for us to collectively pay for public college education, as we pay for k-12, because we as society benefit from people studying to become teachers, engineers, nurses, etc. The individual invests their sweat equity.

People who wanted to pay for the prestige of a private university could still do so.

We could have a discussion about college being subsidized by the state but it should not be based on skin color. The point is though, nothing is free, if the student doesn’t pay tuition, workers will be taxed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I do think that OP. It's the most mutually advantageos way to pay reparations. I do get bogged down in the how-tos however. One drop rule? What abour recent immigrants of color? How do you prove descent from slaves vs. parents who came over from Eritria more recently?

And, I'm very white but have at least one AA ancestor. What do we do about those people? DNA tests with limits?

It should just be based on socioeconomic status, not skin color. Education is the key to moving up the ladder; no one who is motivated should be denied that because of their parents' job status.

Agreed!

[Anonymous]

I agree with you, OP, but think the logistics are so complicated that it can never happen.

We need to adopt a more European model where public education/college/professional degrees are actually accessible to all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am talking about Black and American Indian students. Don't you think our country owes reparations and we should start at this humble place. Wherever they go, whether it's a highly selective or your local state school, why not just pay for the education of these students, regardless of SES?

Umm no. Why not poor white students? Why should rich Black kids go to college for free?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP, but think the logistics are so complicated that it can never happen.

We need to adopt a more European model where public education/college/professional degrees are actually accessible to all.

On the other hand, doesn’t it make sense that the beneficiary of the product pays for it? If it’s subsidized you get into a situation where people get degrees they wouldn’t pay for themselves

College in Europe is a much skimpier experience btw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP, but think the logistics are so complicated that it can never happen.

We need to adopt a more European model where public education/college/professional degrees are actually accessible to all.

OP here. By the replies here, which are startling, I think you are right. If a student chooses to go to a private university, that's on them (or perhaps they can get an amount equal to what their average state school would cost) , but I really think there is a great diversity of universities for all kinds of kids and the barrier to entry is sometimes as little as a few thousand dollars, which means nothing on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP, but think the logistics are so complicated that it can never happen.

We need to adopt a more European model where public education/college/professional degrees are actually accessible to all.

On the other hand, doesn’t it make sense that the beneficiary of the product pays for it? If it’s subsidized you get into a situation where people get degrees they wouldn’t pay for themselves

College in Europe is a much skimpier experience btw

Well, this currently isn’t the case here. Most student loans will never be paid back in full, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP, but think the logistics are so complicated that it can never happen.

We need to adopt a more European model where public education/college/professional degrees are actually accessible to all.

OP here. By the replies here, which are startling, I think you are right. If a student chooses to go to a private university, that's on them (or perhaps they can get an amount equal to what their average state school would cost) , but I really think there is a great diversity of universities for all kinds of kids and the barrier to entry is sometimes as little as a few thousand dollars, which means nothing on this forum.

Correct, for poor kids of any race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP, but think the logistics are so complicated that it can never happen.

We need to adopt a more European model where public education/college/professional degrees are actually accessible to all.

On the other hand, doesn’t it make sense that the beneficiary of the product pays for it? If it’s subsidized you get into a situation where people get degrees they wouldn’t pay for themselves

College in Europe is a much skimpier experience btw

Students themselves are not the only beneficiaries of getting a college education. When someone gets a bachelor’s degree, students, employers, the government and society at large benefit just as much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP, but think the logistics are so complicated that it can never happen.

We need to adopt a more European model where public education/college/professional degrees are actually accessible to all.

On the other hand, doesn’t it make sense that the beneficiary of the product pays for it? If it’s subsidized you get into a situation where people get degrees they wouldn’t pay for themselves

College in Europe is a much skimpier experience btw

Wealthy kids aren’t paying for college themselves; their parents are paying for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP, but think the logistics are so complicated that it can never happen.

We need to adopt a more European model where public education/college/professional degrees are actually accessible to all.

OP here. By the replies here, which are startling, I think you are right. If a student chooses to go to a private university, that's on them (or perhaps they can get an amount equal to what their average state school would cost) , but I really think there is a great diversity of universities for all kinds of kids and the barrier to entry is sometimes as little as a few thousand dollars, which means nothing on this forum.

Correct, for poor kids of any race.

Fair. But can we start somewhere?