Executive Functioning

[Anonymous]

18:15 here - All of the strategies mentioned by other posters are good ones, but not every parent picks their child up everyday or has the ability to sift through what assignments are due, what hasn't been turned in, etc. I couldn't have looked through the backpack with my child, for example, because I don't often do pick up. Also, when my child went to their advisor after school for this kind of help (the advisor offered to help), my child felt stigmatized. If they don't write down an assignment, it's hard to for a parent to know what homework there is! We used a tutor from the Chesapeake ADHD center in Silver Spring. They have a lot of resources there and would be a good place to contact for more information.

[Anonymous]

warning: my post is off-track and not intended to hijack.

We're told that there's a genetic component, and DH is definitely a lifer when it comes to problems with executive functioning! DH married an organized woman like his mother, and I fear that DS will have to do the same. I pity the woman DH marries if he is still this forgetful and disorganized when he grows up!

My father, 70-something, has ADD that was never detected or treated. He did well to marry my mother, an aggressively organized and regimented woman. Mom died, and my dad was a disorganized mess. Not from sadness exactly, but simple things forgetting to pay bills, water the grass and buy bread. He quickly remarried another aggressively organized, regimented woman. They are very happy.

My brother, 30-something, has ADD that he is not treating with meds. He flounders and can't keep a job. He is about to marry a highly organized woman who is a stand-out with schedules, spreadsheets and Blackberry calendar reminders.

I really do think these types of people find each other ...

[Anonymous]

FWIW (and I am not denying that executive functioning problems exist), I have wondered whether boys at puberty go through a stage of great disorganization related to brain changes, but they then may come out of the. My MIL tells stories of my husband that he was hyper-disorganized in MS, but by college was totally organized. My own older son, well, I thought he was a total disaster in about 5-7th grade; now he is very organized. It takes effort, but he works at it and is 80% successful. I think it just became easier in HS. And my younger son (rising 8th), whose teacher says forgets to turn in homework that he has meticulously completed, was highly organized just 2 years ago and now is the disaster his older brother was. My finers are crossed ....

So to those with some knowledge of the teen boy brain - is there any evidence to support my hypothesis? I have wondered this long before I saw this post, and the question is serious, not at all meant to be snarky.

[Anonymous]

I don't think there is any real merit to your theory, PP. But I am not surprised that executive functioning skills improved with maturity; afterall the prefrontal cortex does grow and change with maturation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:warning: my post is off-track and not intended to hijack.

We're told that there's a genetic component, and DH is definitely a lifer when it comes to problems with executive functioning! DH married an organized woman like his mother, and I fear that DS will have to do the same. I pity the woman DH marries if he is still this forgetful and disorganized when he grows up!

My father, 70-something, has ADD that was never detected or treated. He did well to marry my mother, an aggressively organized and regimented woman. Mom died, and my dad was a disorganized mess. Not from sadness exactly, but simple things forgetting to pay bills, water the grass and buy bread. He quickly remarried another aggressively organized, regimented woman. They are very happy.

My brother, 30-something, has ADD that he is not treating with meds. He flounders and can't keep a job. He is about to marry a highly organized woman who is a stand-out with schedules, spreadsheets and Blackberry calendar reminders.

I really do think these types of people find each other ...

Thanks for the rueful chuckles! It's sad, what happened to your father and your brother, but good too that they have each found their complements in their spouses. I'll try to remember the positive side, as your post points out, when I am frustrated with my DH and DS. These types of people do find each other -- sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there is any real merit to your theory, PP. But I am not surprised that executive functioning skills improved with maturity; afterall the prefrontal cortex does grow and change with maturation.

I would think the fact that the prefrontal cortex matures would in fact support the theory about EF skills improving with maturity. In other words, there is a physical component (brain development) in addition to a maturity component (wisdom coming with experience). I've read that a child's brain basically matures from the base up (back of the skull), and that this maturation occurs well through the teen years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW (and I am not denying that executive functioning problems exist), I have wondered whether boys at puberty go through a stage of great disorganization related to brain changes, but they then may come out of the. My MIL tells stories of my husband that he was hyper-disorganized in MS, but by college was totally organized. My own older son, well, I thought he was a total disaster in about 5-7th grade; now he is very organized. It takes effort, but he works at it and is 80% successful. I think it just became easier in HS. And my younger son (rising 8th), whose teacher says forgets to turn in homework that he has meticulously completed, was highly organized just 2 years ago and now is the disaster his older brother was. My finers are crossed ....

So to those with some knowledge of the teen boy brain - is there any evidence to support my hypothesis? I have wondered this long before I saw this post, and the question is serious, not at all meant to be snarky.

Half-true, I think. Executive skills definitely improve with brain maturation, and girls mature earlier than boys. So you may see both genders managing in elementary school (fewer organizational demands), then the girls "get" middle school earlier than the boys, so the boys look like disorganized disasters for a couple of years.

That said, to diagnose executive dysfunction you compare the child to others of the same age and (sometimes) gender, so the kid with executive problems is even less organized and more overwhelmed than the other boys. They will need supports just to get to the level of disorganization the other kids achieve on their own!

[Anonymous]

How much improvement can we expect from adhd drugs if our kid has been diagnosed as inattentive? We will also be doing therapy, organization tutors with strong support from school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much improvement can we expect from adhd drugs if our kid has been diagnosed as inattentive? We will also be doing therapy, organization tutors with strong support from school.

That's probably a question for your therapist. I imagine it varies significantly from kid to kid. I believe there may also be a component related to how early you start the therapy.

[Anonymous]

I mean this in the best possible way, but you and the other parent involved might evaluate whether either of you has a similar executive function disorder. I know two families where an executive function-challenged parent struggled with trying to help organize an executive-function challenged child. My coworker talks openly about how hard it is for her to manage her challenged kid's life, even as she acknowledges that she shares many of the same characteristics.

It looks like you are going for professional help on all fronts, in any case, which is terrific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean this in the best possible way, but you and the other parent involved might evaluate whether either of you has a similar executive function disorder. I know two families where an executive function-challenged parent struggled with trying to help organize an executive-function challenged child. My coworker talks openly about how hard it is for her to manage her challenged kid's life, even as she acknowledges that she shares many of the same characteristics.

It looks like you are going for professional help on all fronts, in any case, which is terrific.

This is a really, really common problem. I actually read an article just the other day in a medical journal talking about it (treatment and intervention compliance issues when parents are effected by the same condition) It's a condition that is likely shared between parents and children...

I have it and struggled a good deal growing up. My children are much too young to know if they have it. But it makes me cringe to think about having to help them organize their backpack when my purse looks like an A bomb went off in it.

[Anonymous]

If your child's school doesn't do so already, here are a few simple things that can help a child with executive functioning deficits: use different colored notebooks with matching folders for each subject and keep the same color system from year to year ... for example, red spiral is always math and red folder is always math homework/handouts, etc. Help a young child (grades 3 through 5, for sure) begin to use an assignment notebook and help the same aged child break down larger projects if the teachers don't do this already. Learning to break down larger assignments into shorter modules is not something all kids are born knowing how to do ... I always did it and was surprised to learn that not everyone thought in this way! I agree with the carpool check process ... it saves so much time and/or enables child to stay "on schedule" without driving back to the school in rush hour traffic. Good luck ... you CAN help your child learn these methods and tools and it will help him/her SO MUCH when college rolls around and child has to do these things alone!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much improvement can we expect from adhd drugs if our kid has been diagnosed as inattentive? We will also be doing therapy, organization tutors with strong support from school.

That's probably a question for your therapist. I imagine it varies significantly from kid to kid. I believe there may also be a component related to how early you start the therapy.

He said it would be like night and day. We hope that's true but have doubts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much improvement can we expect from adhd drugs if our kid has been diagnosed as inattentive? We will also be doing therapy, organization tutors with strong support from school.

Somewhere between astonishing and minimal! The thing about stimulants is that different drugs work differently in different kids. So what is very effective for my kid might make a small difference for your kid, and vice versa. Prescribing is a process, not a one-time done deal. You try something at a low dose, if it doesn't have side effects you increase it, then increase it again. Then you see...is it helping? Is it helping a lot? Are the side effects, if any, manageable? If the answer is no, you try a different medication, with the same process.

For my inattentive kid, adderall made a huge difference but suppressed his appetite too much, and ritalin is very helpful (but a bit less so) with manageable side effects.

[Anonymous]

is there any way you could measure his performance before and after adderal? My kid is also struggling with appetite issues.