Does anyone have information about huge cuts to the music department at Hoover MS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that this sort of change is based on enrollment. So if people drop band/orchestra/chorus and there are not a certain number of students, they combine.

This is the correct answer. The comments about the salaries of people in central office are inaccurate. Schools receive allocations for teaching positions based on enrollment. If the school’s enrollment drops and kids are not signing up for a particular class, things like this happen. The principal decides where the teaching positions are allocated. If enrollment is low in the band class and they keep staffing the same in that area, it means other classes will have enormously large class sizes.

Central office bloat steals from classrooms.

[Anonymous]

If this trend is happening, it is concerning. Our MS is high FARMS, and I can see the enrollment is declining and constant fund raising is going on (many cannot afford an instrument, covering costs for the field trip and concert attire etc. I try to help but I could do only little) Music should be welcomed to all at any level/grades, but a first year musician and a 3rd year musician can't be in the same class... It would get chaotic and students will drop the class or students will hesitate to join. The current Instrumental music class is a gem at our school, and the teacher is really doing their best. I hope MCPS notices it is as important as the other classes they think as important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this trend is happening, it is concerning. Our MS is high FARMS, and I can see the enrollment is declining and constant fund raising is going on (many cannot afford an instrument, covering costs for the field trip and concert attire etc. I try to help but I could do only little) Music should be welcomed to all at any level/grades, but a first year musician and a 3rd year musician can't be in the same class... It would get chaotic and students will drop the class or students will hesitate to join. The current Instrumental music class is a gem at our school, and the teacher is really doing their best. I hope MCPS notices it is as important as the other classes they think as important.

There's no reason to believe this is happening. This is just gossip that is likely getting people worked up over nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Westland MS has one instrumental music teacher, and two orchestras: one beginner, one advanced.

Hoover has one instrumental music teacher and one non-instrumental music teacher. From what I understand the instrumental music teacher is being moved to a half-time slot.

I don't know about the size of sixth grade band, but I can't imagine how they could combine the current 7th and 8th grade bands into one and have them fit into the music room.

It seems like this is a chicken and egg problem. I heard information about the cut from an elementary school parent who is thinking twice about enrolling their kid in 6th grade band because of lack of commitment to the program. Huge classes pose problems with simple classroom management, let alone the attention kids need to learn their instruments. If 8th graders who excel are placed in the same class with 7th graders who aren't strong on their instrument, it sounds like a boring and almost useless class. So they will be causing the problem they are ostensibly responding to-- a weak program will deter students from joining in the first place.

Westland parent you replied to. Oh, DD is only in advanced orchestra to play music with her school friends. The class is abysmally bad. Not the teacher's fault at all, but when you combine music levels you have to teach to the lowest common denominator otherwise it sounds even more hideous than it does now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes private lessons and is in a youth orchestra outside of school, and that's where the music really happens.

Imagine saying this about a sport. Oh, DD is only in [sport] at school to play [sport] with her school friends. The [team] is abysmally bad. Not the [coach's] fault at all, but when you combine [sport] levels you have to [coach] to the lowest common denominator otherwise [the team] is even more [losing] than it is now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes [private coaching] and is in a [travel team] outside of school, and that's where the [sport] really happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Westland MS has one instrumental music teacher, and two orchestras: one beginner, one advanced.

Hoover has one instrumental music teacher and one non-instrumental music teacher. From what I understand the instrumental music teacher is being moved to a half-time slot.

I don't know about the size of sixth grade band, but I can't imagine how they could combine the current 7th and 8th grade bands into one and have them fit into the music room.

It seems like this is a chicken and egg problem. I heard information about the cut from an elementary school parent who is thinking twice about enrolling their kid in 6th grade band because of lack of commitment to the program. Huge classes pose problems with simple classroom management, let alone the attention kids need to learn their instruments. If 8th graders who excel are placed in the same class with 7th graders who aren't strong on their instrument, it sounds like a boring and almost useless class. So they will be causing the problem they are ostensibly responding to-- a weak program will deter students from joining in the first place.

Westland parent you replied to. Oh, DD is only in advanced orchestra to play music with her school friends. The class is abysmally bad. Not the teacher's fault at all, but when you combine music levels you have to teach to the lowest common denominator otherwise it sounds even more hideous than it does now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes private lessons and is in a youth orchestra outside of school, and that's where the music really happens.

Imagine saying this about a sport. Oh, DD is only in [sport] at school to play [sport] with her school friends. The [team] is abysmally bad. Not the [coach's] fault at all, but when you combine [sport] levels you have to [coach] to the lowest common denominator otherwise [the team] is even more [losing] than it is now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes [private coaching] and is in a [travel team] outside of school, and that's where the [sport] really happens.

What's wrong with that? It's pretty accurate. Schools can only teach so many levels. At the end of the day, schools need to focus on academic classes first. Then they need to offer the arts, but they don't need to offer every level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Westland MS has one instrumental music teacher, and two orchestras: one beginner, one advanced.

Hoover has one instrumental music teacher and one non-instrumental music teacher. From what I understand the instrumental music teacher is being moved to a half-time slot.

I don't know about the size of sixth grade band, but I can't imagine how they could combine the current 7th and 8th grade bands into one and have them fit into the music room.

It seems like this is a chicken and egg problem. I heard information about the cut from an elementary school parent who is thinking twice about enrolling their kid in 6th grade band because of lack of commitment to the program. Huge classes pose problems with simple classroom management, let alone the attention kids need to learn their instruments. If 8th graders who excel are placed in the same class with 7th graders who aren't strong on their instrument, it sounds like a boring and almost useless class. So they will be causing the problem they are ostensibly responding to-- a weak program will deter students from joining in the first place.

Westland parent you replied to. Oh, DD is only in advanced orchestra to play music with her school friends. The class is abysmally bad. Not the teacher's fault at all, but when you combine music levels you have to teach to the lowest common denominator otherwise it sounds even more hideous than it does now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes private lessons and is in a youth orchestra outside of school, and that's where the music really happens.

Imagine saying this about a sport. Oh, DD is only in [sport] at school to play [sport] with her school friends. The [team] is abysmally bad. Not the [coach's] fault at all, but when you combine [sport] levels you have to [coach] to the lowest common denominator otherwise [the team] is even more [losing] than it is now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes [private coaching] and is in a [travel team] outside of school, and that's where the [sport] really happens.

What's wrong with that? It's pretty accurate. Schools can only teach so many levels. At the end of the day, schools need to focus on academic classes first. Then they need to offer the arts, but they don't need to offer every level.

Have you ever read a post like that on DCUM, about sports?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Westland MS has one instrumental music teacher, and two orchestras: one beginner, one advanced.

Hoover has one instrumental music teacher and one non-instrumental music teacher. From what I understand the instrumental music teacher is being moved to a half-time slot.

I don't know about the size of sixth grade band, but I can't imagine how they could combine the current 7th and 8th grade bands into one and have them fit into the music room.

It seems like this is a chicken and egg problem. I heard information about the cut from an elementary school parent who is thinking twice about enrolling their kid in 6th grade band because of lack of commitment to the program. Huge classes pose problems with simple classroom management, let alone the attention kids need to learn their instruments. If 8th graders who excel are placed in the same class with 7th graders who aren't strong on their instrument, it sounds like a boring and almost useless class. So they will be causing the problem they are ostensibly responding to-- a weak program will deter students from joining in the first place.

Westland parent you replied to. Oh, DD is only in advanced orchestra to play music with her school friends. The class is abysmally bad. Not the teacher's fault at all, but when you combine music levels you have to teach to the lowest common denominator otherwise it sounds even more hideous than it does now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes private lessons and is in a youth orchestra outside of school, and that's where the music really happens.

Imagine saying this about a sport. Oh, DD is only in [sport] at school to play [sport] with her school friends. The [team] is abysmally bad. Not the [coach's] fault at all, but when you combine [sport] levels you have to [coach] to the lowest common denominator otherwise [the team] is even more [losing] than it is now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes [private coaching] and is in a [travel team] outside of school, and that's where the [sport] really happens.

You realize that’s why many of us do outside orchestras and lessons just like sports

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Westland MS has one instrumental music teacher, and two orchestras: one beginner, one advanced.

Hoover has one instrumental music teacher and one non-instrumental music teacher. From what I understand the instrumental music teacher is being moved to a half-time slot.

I don't know about the size of sixth grade band, but I can't imagine how they could combine the current 7th and 8th grade bands into one and have them fit into the music room.

It seems like this is a chicken and egg problem. I heard information about the cut from an elementary school parent who is thinking twice about enrolling their kid in 6th grade band because of lack of commitment to the program. Huge classes pose problems with simple classroom management, let alone the attention kids need to learn their instruments. If 8th graders who excel are placed in the same class with 7th graders who aren't strong on their instrument, it sounds like a boring and almost useless class. So they will be causing the problem they are ostensibly responding to-- a weak program will deter students from joining in the first place.

Westland parent you replied to. Oh, DD is only in advanced orchestra to play music with her school friends. The class is abysmally bad. Not the teacher's fault at all, but when you combine music levels you have to teach to the lowest common denominator otherwise it sounds even more hideous than it does now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes private lessons and is in a youth orchestra outside of school, and that's where the music really happens.

Imagine saying this about a sport. Oh, DD is only in [sport] at school to play [sport] with her school friends. The [team] is abysmally bad. Not the [coach's] fault at all, but when you combine [sport] levels you have to [coach] to the lowest common denominator otherwise [the team] is even more [losing] than it is now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes [private coaching] and is in a [travel team] outside of school, and that's where the [sport] really happens.

What's wrong with that? It's pretty accurate. Schools can only teach so many levels. At the end of the day, schools need to focus on academic classes first. Then they need to offer the arts, but they don't need to offer every level.

Except they don’t teach academics well and part of academia is the arts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Westland MS has one instrumental music teacher, and two orchestras: one beginner, one advanced.

Hoover has one instrumental music teacher and one non-instrumental music teacher. From what I understand the instrumental music teacher is being moved to a half-time slot.

I don't know about the size of sixth grade band, but I can't imagine how they could combine the current 7th and 8th grade bands into one and have them fit into the music room.

It seems like this is a chicken and egg problem. I heard information about the cut from an elementary school parent who is thinking twice about enrolling their kid in 6th grade band because of lack of commitment to the program. Huge classes pose problems with simple classroom management, let alone the attention kids need to learn their instruments. If 8th graders who excel are placed in the same class with 7th graders who aren't strong on their instrument, it sounds like a boring and almost useless class. So they will be causing the problem they are ostensibly responding to-- a weak program will deter students from joining in the first place.

Westland parent you replied to. Oh, DD is only in advanced orchestra to play music with her school friends. The class is abysmally bad. Not the teacher's fault at all, but when you combine music levels you have to teach to the lowest common denominator otherwise it sounds even more hideous than it does now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes private lessons and is in a youth orchestra outside of school, and that's where the music really happens.

Imagine saying this about a sport. Oh, DD is only in [sport] at school to play [sport] with her school friends. The [team] is abysmally bad. Not the [coach's] fault at all, but when you combine [sport] levels you have to [coach] to the lowest common denominator otherwise [the team] is even more [losing] than it is now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes [private coaching] and is in a [travel team] outside of school, and that's where the [sport] really happens.

What's wrong with that? It's pretty accurate. Schools can only teach so many levels. At the end of the day, schools need to focus on academic classes first. Then they need to offer the arts, but they don't need to offer every level.

Except they don’t teach academics well and part of academia is the arts.

Not to mention studies have proven that Arts can have a positive impact on other academic areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Westland MS has one instrumental music teacher, and two orchestras: one beginner, one advanced.

Westland also has a part time guitar teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Westland MS has one instrumental music teacher, and two orchestras: one beginner, one advanced.

Hoover has one instrumental music teacher and one non-instrumental music teacher. From what I understand the instrumental music teacher is being moved to a half-time slot.

I don't know about the size of sixth grade band, but I can't imagine how they could combine the current 7th and 8th grade bands into one and have them fit into the music room.

It seems like this is a chicken and egg problem. I heard information about the cut from an elementary school parent who is thinking twice about enrolling their kid in 6th grade band because of lack of commitment to the program. Huge classes pose problems with simple classroom management, let alone the attention kids need to learn their instruments. If 8th graders who excel are placed in the same class with 7th graders who aren't strong on their instrument, it sounds like a boring and almost useless class. So they will be causing the problem they are ostensibly responding to-- a weak program will deter students from joining in the first place.

Westland parent you replied to. Oh, DD is only in advanced orchestra to play music with her school friends. The class is abysmally bad. Not the teacher's fault at all, but when you combine music levels you have to teach to the lowest common denominator otherwise it sounds even more hideous than it does now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes private lessons and is in a youth orchestra outside of school, and that's where the music really happens.

Imagine saying this about a sport. Oh, DD is only in [sport] at school to play [sport] with her school friends. The [team] is abysmally bad. Not the [coach's] fault at all, but when you combine [sport] levels you have to [coach] to the lowest common denominator otherwise [the team] is even more [losing] than it is now. We never expected anything much, so we're not disappointed. Let's put it like that. It's public school, after all. DD takes [private coaching] and is in a [travel team] outside of school, and that's where the [sport] really happens.

You realize that’s why many of us do outside orchestras and lessons just like sports

Who is "us"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this trend is happening, it is concerning. Our MS is high FARMS, and I can see the enrollment is declining and constant fund raising is going on (many cannot afford an instrument, covering costs for the field trip and concert attire etc. I try to help but I could do only little) Music should be welcomed to all at any level/grades, but a first year musician and a 3rd year musician can't be in the same class... It would get chaotic and students will drop the class or students will hesitate to join. The current Instrumental music class is a gem at our school, and the teacher is really doing their best. I hope MCPS notices it is as important as the other classes they think as important.

The schools offer free instruments but the problem is they only have so many and some families who can afford instruments take them so others don't get them. The real issue is the lack of actual teaching going on at that level. If they don't do individual instruments like in ES, except if you are in private lessons, it's pretty hard to learn in a group setting.

Our MS band teacher was terrible.

[Anonymous]

Musical ensembles have the potential to be much larger than regular classes and if the situation warrants it, it makes sense to have many more students in such classes.

But it sounds like in this situation, student learning will be sacrificed greatly-- none of the kids will be consistently constructed at their ability level by mixing levels just for the sake of increasing class size.

In my book, if any of the ensembles has fewer than 35 kids, it would be worth finding some way to combine. But if the average music class is no smaller than the class sizes in other depts, then there's no justification in combining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this trend is happening, it is concerning. Our MS is high FARMS, and I can see the enrollment is declining and constant fund raising is going on (many cannot afford an instrument, covering costs for the field trip and concert attire etc. I try to help but I could do only little) Music should be welcomed to all at any level/grades, but a first year musician and a 3rd year musician can't be in the same class... It would get chaotic and students will drop the class or students will hesitate to join. The current Instrumental music class is a gem at our school, and the teacher is really doing their best. I hope MCPS notices it is as important as the other classes they think as important.

There's no reason to believe this is happening. This is just gossip that is likely getting people worked up over nothing.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Musical ensembles have the potential to be much larger than regular classes and if the situation warrants it, it makes sense to have many more students in such classes.

But it sounds like in this situation, student learning will be sacrificed greatly-- none of the kids will be consistently constructed at their ability level by mixing levels just for the sake of increasing class size.

In my book, if any of the ensembles has fewer than 35 kids, it would be worth finding some way to combine. But if the average music class is no smaller than the class sizes in other depts, then there's no justification in combining.

The skill level is important or no one learns.