Federal leaders - paying for staff perks out of pocket?

[Anonymous]

We mostly telework, but once per quarter, we all go into the office and I buy lunch. I don't do anything for holidays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a difficult issue. I'm a GS 14 and most of my direct reports make really similar money to me (they're high 13s), except I'm expected to buy them all lunches, give gifts at the holidays, bring in bagels often. I was glad when covid cut most of that out. I have 3 in daycare, so even $50 is a lot to me. At our annual BBQ, managers are expected to throw $100 in to purchase the room rental and food, plus make a dish.

Low level employees (GS7) get pretty angry when meetings roll into lunch and they can't really afford to order lunches in like everyone else.

Something that really annoys me are public meetings. We're expected to provide some sort of tray of food plus drinks. Where does that money come from? Yep, managers.

Gov is just kind of cheap.

It’s definitely different if this is the situation but working in places where managers are SES or Regulators with incomes over $225K it’s different. They make $50K-$100K more than their Staff and $100 once a year seems chintzy, although I realize that they may not be as flush as it seems, they make way more and should theoretically be able to handle more than $100 a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We mostly telework, but once per quarter, we all go into the office and I buy lunch. I don't do anything for holidays.

This is very generous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a difficult issue. I'm a GS 14 and most of my direct reports make really similar money to me (they're high 13s), except I'm expected to buy them all lunches, give gifts at the holidays, bring in bagels often. I was glad when covid cut most of that out. I have 3 in daycare, so even $50 is a lot to me. At our annual BBQ, managers are expected to throw $100 in to purchase the room rental and food, plus make a dish.

Low level employees (GS7) get pretty angry when meetings roll into lunch and they can't really afford to order lunches in like everyone else.

Something that really annoys me are public meetings. We're expected to provide some sort of tray of food plus drinks. Where does that money come from? Yep, managers.

Gov is just kind of cheap.

It’s definitely different if this is the situation but working in places where managers are SES or Regulators with incomes over $225K it’s different. They make $50K-$100K more than their Staff and $100 once a year seems chintzy, although I realize that they may not be as flush as it seems, they make way more and should theoretically be able to handle more than $100 a year.

But why?! This doesn't happen in private sector companies. If your manager gets lunch, it's on the corporate credit card. Why is there an expectation that your manager buys lunch?

The majority of the fed workforce reports to a mid level manager who is likely GS13-15. The mid level managers are the ones who report to senior managers. Most senior managers only supervise other managers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a difficult issue. I'm a GS 14 and most of my direct reports make really similar money to me (they're high 13s), except I'm expected to buy them all lunches, give gifts at the holidays, bring in bagels often. I was glad when covid cut most of that out. I have 3 in daycare, so even $50 is a lot to me. At our annual BBQ, managers are expected to throw $100 in to purchase the room rental and food, plus make a dish.

Low level employees (GS7) get pretty angry when meetings roll into lunch and they can't really afford to order lunches in like everyone else.

Something that really annoys me are public meetings. We're expected to provide some sort of tray of food plus drinks. Where does that money come from? Yep, managers.

Gov is just kind of cheap.

It’s definitely different if this is the situation but working in places where managers are SES or Regulators with incomes over $225K it’s different. They make $50K-$100K more than their Staff and $100 once a year seems chintzy, although I realize that they may not be as flush as it seems, they make way more and should theoretically be able to handle more than $100 a year.

But why?! This doesn't happen in private sector companies. If your manager gets lunch, it's on the corporate credit card. Why is there an expectation that your manager buys lunch?

The majority of the fed workforce reports to a mid level manager who is likely GS13-15. The mid level managers are the ones who report to senior managers. Most senior managers only supervise other managers.

I don’t think $100 a year is in any way a huge imposition. Most managers get Staff to do literally all the things to plan anything at all and that time is more valuable than $100. If Staff is expected to plan a party, which they don’t do in private either, the management can stand to put out a small amount to reward staff as a senior manager….not just those reporting directly to them. This is part of recognition. It should be evident why it matters and is expected.

No one is asking for a private industry party. This is literally a Costco tray in a break room. They don’t even always pick it up themselves. You can not directly compare many things in Government to private, so why should this be the comparison that matters?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a difficult issue. I'm a GS 14 and most of my direct reports make really similar money to me (they're high 13s), except I'm expected to buy them all lunches, give gifts at the holidays, bring in bagels often. I was glad when covid cut most of that out. I have 3 in daycare, so even $50 is a lot to me. At our annual BBQ, managers are expected to throw $100 in to purchase the room rental and food, plus make a dish.

Low level employees (GS7) get pretty angry when meetings roll into lunch and they can't really afford to order lunches in like everyone else.

Something that really annoys me are public meetings. We're expected to provide some sort of tray of food plus drinks. Where does that money come from? Yep, managers.

Gov is just kind of cheap.

It’s definitely different if this is the situation but working in places where managers are SES or Regulators with incomes over $225K it’s different. They make $50K-$100K more than their Staff and $100 once a year seems chintzy, although I realize that they may not be as flush as it seems, they make way more and should theoretically be able to handle more than $100 a year.

But why?! This doesn't happen in private sector companies. If your manager gets lunch, it's on the corporate credit card. Why is there an expectation that your manager buys lunch?

The majority of the fed workforce reports to a mid level manager who is likely GS13-15. The mid level managers are the ones who report to senior managers. Most senior managers only supervise other managers.

Also - no one in private is asked to pay $15 for their Costco tray portion plus to bring in a pot luck meal. Why should managers not also be expected to contribute?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a difficult issue. I'm a GS 14 and most of my direct reports make really similar money to me (they're high 13s), except I'm expected to buy them all lunches, give gifts at the holidays, bring in bagels often. I was glad when covid cut most of that out. I have 3 in daycare, so even $50 is a lot to me. At our annual BBQ, managers are expected to throw $100 in to purchase the room rental and food, plus make a dish.

Low level employees (GS7) get pretty angry when meetings roll into lunch and they can't really afford to order lunches in like everyone else.

Something that really annoys me are public meetings. We're expected to provide some sort of tray of food plus drinks. Where does that money come from? Yep, managers.

Gov is just kind of cheap.

It’s definitely different if this is the situation but working in places where managers are SES or Regulators with incomes over $225K it’s different. They make $50K-$100K more than their Staff and $100 once a year seems chintzy, although I realize that they may not be as flush as it seems, they make way more and should theoretically be able to handle more than $100 a year.

But why?! This doesn't happen in private sector companies. If your manager gets lunch, it's on the corporate credit card. Why is there an expectation that your manager buys lunch?

The majority of the fed workforce reports to a mid level manager who is likely GS13-15. The mid level managers are the ones who report to senior managers. Most senior managers only supervise other managers.

Also - no one in private is asked to pay $15 for their Costco tray portion plus to bring in a pot luck meal. Why should managers not also be expected to contribute?

I'm a PP who thinks managers should contribute. But, a tiny number of people actually want a Costco tray or holiday party or happy hour, and the party planning falls disproportionately on female staff. The whole idea needs to be scaled down to just a couple events each year for cohesion purposes.

The best thing Fed managers can do for morale (distinct from cohesion) is let people leave early every once in a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gs-14, gs-15, and SES (or equivalents): in what circumstances do you pay for things out of pocket for your staff?

I am a newer GS-15 and am just curious how others handle this as I have often found myself questioning what is appropriate. In my federal experience, I’ve had leaders who give a small token gift around end of year holidays (think mug etc) and would take their direct reports out to lunch at end of year. This would include feds and contractors.

As a supervisor, I have always had a combination of local and non local staff. So instead of a lunch, I typically have given a small gift card or similar at end of year ($10-20). I’ve also often done a small gift card at Public Service Recognition Week to cover a cup of coffee, which is something I picked up from my leadership. I coordinate baby and wedding showers, and give gifts for that as well as for first time home purchases. I do these things for both feds and contractors. I also occasionally buy lunch - maybe 1-2x year, typically in a situation where lunch may be $10-15 per person. I budget a few hundred dollars for this sort of thing from my personal funds throughout the year.

Too high risk from ethics perspective. Is your ethics lawyer ok with all of these?

nothing in ethics rules prohibits this and it is common practice

says you or your ethics officer? def not common in my agency.

ethics rules say employees cannot buy gifts for their supervisors but not the other way around

and in my agency, it is definitely common for the senior staff to either outright pay for or kick in a lot more toward a baby gift, holiday lunch, retirement gift, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a difficult issue. I'm a GS 14 and most of my direct reports make really similar money to me (they're high 13s), except I'm expected to buy them all lunches, give gifts at the holidays, bring in bagels often. I was glad when covid cut most of that out. I have 3 in daycare, so even $50 is a lot to me. At our annual BBQ, managers are expected to throw $100 in to purchase the room rental and food, plus make a dish.

Low level employees (GS7) get pretty angry when meetings roll into lunch and they can't really afford to order lunches in like everyone else.

Something that really annoys me are public meetings. We're expected to provide some sort of tray of food plus drinks. Where does that money come from? Yep, managers.

Gov is just kind of cheap.

It’s definitely different if this is the situation but working in places where managers are SES or Regulators with incomes over $225K it’s different. They make $50K-$100K more than their Staff and $100 once a year seems chintzy, although I realize that they may not be as flush as it seems, they make way more and should theoretically be able to handle more than $100 a year.

But why?! This doesn't happen in private sector companies. If your manager gets lunch, it's on the corporate credit card. Why is there an expectation that your manager buys lunch?

The majority of the fed workforce reports to a mid level manager who is likely GS13-15. The mid level managers are the ones who report to senior managers. Most senior managers only supervise other managers.

Um, I worked in the private sector--consulting--and if I took my supervisees out to lunch I paid for it, I couldn't "expense" it. Birthday cakes, a couple of bottles of champagne to celebrate a big win, donuts for everyone working on a Sunday morning.....that's all senior staff out of pocket kind of stuff in the private sector too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a difficult issue. I'm a GS 14 and most of my direct reports make really similar money to me (they're high 13s), except I'm expected to buy them all lunches, give gifts at the holidays, bring in bagels often. I was glad when covid cut most of that out. I have 3 in daycare, so even $50 is a lot to me. At our annual BBQ, managers are expected to throw $100 in to purchase the room rental and food, plus make a dish.

Low level employees (GS7) get pretty angry when meetings roll into lunch and they can't really afford to order lunches in like everyone else.

Something that really annoys me are public meetings. We're expected to provide some sort of tray of food plus drinks. Where does that money come from? Yep, managers.

Gov is just kind of cheap.

It’s definitely different if this is the situation but working in places where managers are SES or Regulators with incomes over $225K it’s different. They make $50K-$100K more than their Staff and $100 once a year seems chintzy, although I realize that they may not be as flush as it seems, they make way more and should theoretically be able to handle more than $100 a year.

But why?! This doesn't happen in private sector companies. If your manager gets lunch, it's on the corporate credit card. Why is there an expectation that your manager buys lunch?

The majority of the fed workforce reports to a mid level manager who is likely GS13-15. The mid level managers are the ones who report to senior managers. Most senior managers only supervise other managers.

Um, I worked in the private sector--consulting--and if I took my supervisees out to lunch I paid for it, I couldn't "expense" it. Birthday cakes, a couple of bottles of champagne to celebrate a big win, donuts for everyone working on a Sunday morning.....that's all senior staff out of pocket kind of stuff in the private sector too.

It wasn't where I used to work!

[Anonymous]

Boss, you don't have to feed us. Just do your job well. That's more than enough for us. Fed managers are the worst!

- your staff

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a difficult issue. I'm a GS 14 and most of my direct reports make really similar money to me (they're high 13s), except I'm expected to buy them all lunches, give gifts at the holidays, bring in bagels often. I was glad when covid cut most of that out. I have 3 in daycare, so even $50 is a lot to me. At our annual BBQ, managers are expected to throw $100 in to purchase the room rental and food, plus make a dish.

Low level employees (GS7) get pretty angry when meetings roll into lunch and they can't really afford to order lunches in like everyone else.

Something that really annoys me are public meetings. We're expected to provide some sort of tray of food plus drinks. Where does that money come from? Yep, managers.

Gov is just kind of cheap.

It’s definitely different if this is the situation but working in places where managers are SES or Regulators with incomes over $225K it’s different. They make $50K-$100K more than their Staff and $100 once a year seems chintzy, although I realize that they may not be as flush as it seems, they make way more and should theoretically be able to handle more than $100 a year.

But why?! This doesn't happen in private sector companies. If your manager gets lunch, it's on the corporate credit card. Why is there an expectation that your manager buys lunch?

The majority of the fed workforce reports to a mid level manager who is likely GS13-15. The mid level managers are the ones who report to senior managers. Most senior managers only supervise other managers.

Also - no one in private is asked to pay $15 for their Costco tray portion plus to bring in a pot luck meal. Why should managers not also be expected to contribute?

I'm a PP who thinks managers should contribute. But, a tiny number of people actually want a Costco tray or holiday party or happy hour, and the party planning falls disproportionately on female staff. The whole idea needs to be scaled down to just a couple events each year for cohesion purposes.

The best thing Fed managers can do for morale (distinct from cohesion) is let people leave early every once in a while.

I’m the one you replied to and I don’t disagree.

When we RTO at my old job the managers bought some snacks and stuck them in a room. I used some leftover party money to stock it.

A temporary perk likely turned to an expectation. I left, so I assume no one does it now and that’s probably the right thing…..you can’t expect managers to keep a free snack room stocked. So, there’s a danger with too many perks. It becomes something people just decide they are supposed to have and then ut loses all purpose.

[Anonymous]

Been a fed for a while and it varies IME. For holiday parties typically the SES staff all chip in a couple hundred bucks each and there's a committee that does the actual planning. I've had managers who would pick up the tab at most office lunches/HHs, and some that never would. Ditto with holiday gifts - some managers who did them every year (something like a $20 starbucks card) and some that never did. I definitely don't expect it and would never be upset if my manager didn't do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gs-14, gs-15, and SES (or equivalents): in what circumstances do you pay for things out of pocket for your staff?

I am a newer GS-15 and am just curious how others handle this as I have often found myself questioning what is appropriate. In my federal experience, I’ve had leaders who give a small token gift around end of year holidays (think mug etc) and would take their direct reports out to lunch at end of year. This would include feds and contractors.

As a supervisor, I have always had a combination of local and non local staff. So instead of a lunch, I typically have given a small gift card or similar at end of year ($10-20). I’ve also often done a small gift card at Public Service Recognition Week to cover a cup of coffee, which is something I picked up from my leadership. I coordinate baby and wedding showers, and give gifts for that as well as for first time home purchases. I do these things for both feds and contractors. I also occasionally buy lunch - maybe 1-2x year, typically in a situation where lunch may be $10-15 per person. I budget a few hundred dollars for this sort of thing from my personal funds throughout the year.

Too high risk from ethics perspective. Is your ethics lawyer ok with all of these?

I asked that lady but she’s in Egypt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a difficult issue. I'm a GS 14 and most of my direct reports make really similar money to me (they're high 13s), except I'm expected to buy them all lunches, give gifts at the holidays, bring in bagels often. I was glad when covid cut most of that out. I have 3 in daycare, so even $50 is a lot to me. At our annual BBQ, managers are expected to throw $100 in to purchase the room rental and food, plus make a dish.

Low level employees (GS7) get pretty angry when meetings roll into lunch and they can't really afford to order lunches in like everyone else.

Something that really annoys me are public meetings. We're expected to provide some sort of tray of food plus drinks. Where does that money come from? Yep, managers.

Gov is just kind of cheap.

It’s definitely different if this is the situation but working in places where managers are SES or Regulators with incomes over $225K it’s different. They make $50K-$100K more than their Staff and $100 once a year seems chintzy, although I realize that they may not be as flush as it seems, they make way more and should theoretically be able to handle more than $100 a year.

But why?! This doesn't happen in private sector companies. If your manager gets lunch, it's on the corporate credit card. Why is there an expectation that your manager buys lunch?

The majority of the fed workforce reports to a mid level manager who is likely GS13-15. The mid level managers are the ones who report to senior managers. Most senior managers only supervise other managers.

Um, I worked in the private sector--consulting--and if I took my supervisees out to lunch I paid for it, I couldn't "expense" it. Birthday cakes, a couple of bottles of champagne to celebrate a big win, donuts for everyone working on a Sunday morning.....that's all senior staff out of pocket kind of stuff in the private sector too.

Um, no! You must have worked for a contractor, not a consulting firm.