Public HS and college acceptances

[Anonymous]

I have heard that colleges, of course, are looking for diversity and so that a top student from a public school will stand out. I'm hoping that will help my kid when the time comes.

On the other hand, I remember a WaPo feature from the 2000 election about the family advantages Gore and Bush benefited from. As I recall, Gore did not have superb grades but got into Harvard anyway. In addition to Gore's advantage of having a Senator father, the article pointed out that St. Albans had a good relationship with Harvard which helped ease their graduates' way into the elite school.

That said -- I wouldn't want my kid to go to Harvard because the faculty there are much more likely to be focused on research and graduate programs. Plus this country has a wealth of higher educational opportunities to choose from. As a former faculty member, I can tell you that there are highly talented faculty at all kinds of colleges and universities. The academic job market has been so bad for so long that a lot of highly competent people are teaching at less than distinguished schools.

Then again if your main goal is to have your kid attend a school with the son of a senator so he/she can be networked at the highest levels of power -- okay, maybe you should shoot for Harvard!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In fact, your chances of getting into a top Ivy School ARE higher if you go to St. Albans versus a run of the mill public school. Roughly 25% of the graduating class from St. Albans (the school I know) will matriculate to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT, or Stanford. Some private schools, like Collegiate in NY, have as many as 50% going to one of those 5 schools. So if you are going strictly by probability, you have the higher probability of getting into a top IVY from St. Albans than from an area public school.

However, that's assuming that the student quality is about the same in both schools. It probably is not.

I agree, but if you take the same demographic of kids in public schools, who have the same drive to go to Harvard (important factor), you will probably see admission numbers that high.
What amazes me, is the number of kids in public schools who are very bright, but don't even know that they are Harvard material. If that same kid was at St. Alban's, he would be reminded to apply to Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
On the other hand, I remember a WaPo feature from the 2000 election about the family advantages Gore and Bush benefited from. As I recall, Gore did not have superb grades but got into Harvard anyway. In addition to Gore's advantage of having a Senator father, the article pointed out that St. Albans had a good relationship with Harvard which helped ease their graduates' way into the elite school.

In those cases, esp. Bush at Yale, both were legacies and that helps a lot. It was also a different time. The head of admissions at Yale in the 50s and 60s was an old family friend. He told me that the way it worked was that headmasters from the private schools would divide up the class (we're talking about all-boys schools then) into who should go to Yale, Harvard or Princeton and the headmaster would then send the list to the admissions person and that was that. Whoever was on the list got into those schools.

Obviously times have changed but the Ivies are known for admitting "name" students. There is actually a book about this called The Price of Admission. In it, the author outlines how the Ivy league schools will admit children of famous or very wealthy kids who are not necessarily the most qualified candidates. I mean, I am sure young Barbara Bush or the Gore kids are smart and were well-prepared for Yale and Harvard but were they top of the top? I bet not.

I went to a top private high school and yes, the college counselor had good relationships with the admissions people at top schools, but as others have correctly pointed out, there are only so many kids any college will accept from any high school, esp. a private one and esp. a private one in a place like DC or NYC. I always joked when I was applying to college that I needed to become a Hispanic tuba player from North Dakota instead of a WASP from the Upper East Side of NYC! As one of 20 kids in my class to apply to Princeton, I did not stand out.

[zumbamama]

I went to Yorktown in Arlington and I remember a few classmates going to Harvard. One guy even skipped his senior year and went to Harvard...he must have been a genius.

[Anonymous]

I took the liberty of cutting and pasting a WashPost article cited in a different thread that's directly on point. It's by Jay Matthews, Feb. 25th I think. Actually, this in an opinion article, by a guy with 25 years of education reporting and research under his belt:


"6. The most competitive high schools do not necessarily lead to acceptance at the most selective colleges.

Many parents think that if their kids can get into the private school where all the Supreme Court justices sent their children, or into the public magnet school that rejects 80 percent of its applicants, they are guaranteed admission into the Ivy League. The opposite is true.

A 1997 survey of more than 1 million high school seniors by Paul Attewell of the City University of New York Graduate Center found that, except for a few superstars, attending a very competitive high school hurt students' chances of getting into a very selective college. The reason is that selective colleges take only a few students from each school. A student with a 2200 SAT score is not going to stand out at a high school with several 2300s, but will be at the top of Yale's list in a school that has only one or two seniors who score over 2100. (The top score is now 2400.) Of course, those competitive high schools will still give your child a great education, and perhaps that is more important than which college sticker you get to put on your car."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course, those competitive high schools will still give your child a great education, and perhaps that is more important than which college sticker you get to put on your car."

This is why we want to send our child to the best high school we can. We're not worried about college. That will sort itself out.

[Anonymous]

A few points:

Gore got into Harvard a long time ago. It wasn't that hard to get into the ivies then. It isn't a fair comparison.

The goal here is to raise educated children who can think for themselves and succeed in any environment. It isn't just about getting your kid into Harvard, but having them succeed once there. (Yeah, I know, no one fails out of Harvard, but I've dealt with students from the bottom half of those schools, and let's just say they aren't so impressive.) Entering college with good solid training makes a big difference - be it at Penn State or Yale.

[Anonymous]

My understanding is that graduating classes from top public high schools like Walt Whitman (Bethesda), Yorktown (Arl.), Langley, McLean, Churchill, etc... often have quite a few (10-20?) who get into "elite" schools (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton) every year.

I don't know where you would check those statistics, but I think in this area, some of the public high schools are very very good. I went to Whitman, (years ago) and I would stack my education up against any of the kids at St. Albans, NCS, etc. any day of the week.

[Anonymous]

Also a Whitman grad, and I agree pp.

[Anonymous]

I think you need to choose your school somewhat (not completely but somewhat) independent of the college acceptances. That can't be the guiding force behind the decision. I am happy that great universities take great kids, from wherever they come.

[Anonymous]

I think something that often gets lost in the public/private debate is really what the kid NEEDS. My older sister and I both went through the public school system (in Montgomery County). My younger siblings went to private school (one went to Holton Arms, one to Sidwell).

Choosing a school based purely on what you perceive are your chances for getting into an Ivy is short-sighted. It is equally important that your child is happy and successful in college and in life.

In my family, my older sister and I (the public school grads) are more materially successful than our younger siblings. Both of us did very well at very good colleges (although not Ivies), went to top ranked law schools, (Duke and Columbia) are quite "successful". I recently left my firm for a lower paid government job that I like more... so now I'm happy, AND successful. Great for me. (I realize full well that "success" shouldn't be measured by salary, but I'm using that standard here because I think that is what a lot of people think).

My younger siblings both went to good colleges, and were successful (maybe not as successful as my older sister and I). One is now a social worker, and one is a high school English teacher. They're both happy, and good at their jobs, but maybe not "as successful" in terms of monetary reward.

So, sending your kid to a private school is no guarantee that he'll end up a Senator, law firm partner, or brain surgeon... but I think if pressed, that is what a lot of parents want for their kids.

I think the key difference between top private schools and top public schools in THIS area is minimal... mostly its an issue of environment. Private schools have more tightly controlled environments -- uniforms, smaller classes, more parent-teacher contact, etc. Public schools have much looser environments -- for kids who can handle that, its great, and I think, more like college, and more like the "real world". But some teens CAN'T handle that environment, and start flailing at the bottom edges of the class. I think the public schools do a poor job with kids who are struggling.

So, at the end of the day, I will send my kids to good public schools here, so long as they can handle it. If they can't, I'll put them in private school. I think a motivated/organized/together kid can get a great education at either place, and has basically the same shot at getting into good schools and being successful in life. If my kid has attention problems, or just shows some of the poor judgment that is characteristic in teens... I think he'd be better off in a smaller environment.

Just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

pp, interesting. Things might have changed since we were in school though. I don't think that these days, private schools will take kids who are having trouble handling public school anymore.

[Anonymous]

Also, not everyone has access to a Whitman quality public school.

[Anonymous]

In my case, I had to do private high school (I'm in the District and the middle/high school option was not acceptable). But I also think my son's getting a great education (St. Albans). I know it's insanely expensive. But from my perspective, given that any private school is already $20K no matter what, am I getting my money's worth by investing the extra $5-$10K? I think so.

[Anonymous]

It's not just getting in, it's also how well you're prepared. I had friends whose kids went to private schools, and they breezed through their freshman year, while some kids who had gone to middling public schools struggled mightily. Even my husband, who went to a well-regarded Montgomery County school, had a tougher time in his first year at college. His roomate, who had gone to a private school, had already covered the material in high school.