Doubling up on math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had my kid repeat algebra in 8th because or remorse learning fiasco. They said he could do geometry same time.

I wouldn't blame remote learning. Many kids are playing video games or AFK. The studies I've seen indicated that learning loss occurred even exposed with another remote because of the stresses of the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my kid repeat algebra in 8th because or remorse learning fiasco. They said he could do geometry same time.

I wouldn't blame remote learning. Many kids are playing video games or AFK. The studies I've seen indicated that learning loss occurred even exposed with another remote because of the stresses of the pandemic.

My kid has a learning disability and could not learn over zoom. But thank you for your insightful advice on something you know nothing about.

[Anonymous]

I would let kid take algebra in 8th, and concurrently enroll him in AOPS geometry (full year course, self paced). Then have him do geometry over the summer for credit. It's too much material to cram in the summer and understand but if he did a a "first pass" at home he could probably get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had my kid repeat algebra in 8th because or remorse learning fiasco. They said he could do geometry same time.

Maybe if you supervised/helped more and used the free tutoring that would have helped.

I would not double up on math. I would have pushed for 7th grade algebra. Doing it in the summer is very hard as its very accelerated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my kid repeat algebra in 8th because or remorse learning fiasco. They said he could do geometry same time.

Maybe if you supervised/helped more and used the free tutoring that would have helped.

I would not double up on math. I would have pushed for 7th grade algebra. Doing it in the summer is very hard as its very accelerated.

I didn’t do it, just said it was offered. Aced algebra in 8th and doing great in geometry in 8th. Watching all his friends struggle in Alg 2 since they only learned half the material. He has a solid foundation now since for whatever reason remote did not work at all with his LD.

[Anonymous]

PP again. Typo above. He is in Geometry in 9th.

[Anonymous]

Math teacher here. Recommend taking either Alg 1 one year, preferably in 9th, then geometry the next year, or taking Alg 1 one year, preferably 9th, then Geometry and Alg 2 concurrently, preferably in 10th.

I have found that students taking Algebra 1 in 7th or 8th usually get taught a watered down course conceptually - their brains (with a few notable exceptions) just aren't ready for the concepts, even if they can perform the rote operations. But admin and parents want their little darlings to get good grades rather than the grade they'd probably get if they got a full Alg 1 course, so the course is watered down (either all the concepts are taught but not in depth, or some concepts are just skipped.) Then when they take Alg 2, I can't teach it with full rigor because I end up having to reteach the concepts they should have known already, but don't because their Alg 1 course was watered down, therefore I can't get through the full Alg 2 course.

I have a fair amount of success with the kids who take Geom and Alg 2 concurrently in 10th. Those kids are usually already advanced in math, so taking those two courses at the same time isn't usually a problem. But without a strong Alg 1 foundation, they will struggle in both Geom and Alg 2 and frankly all subsequent math courses.

I advocate for taking Geom as a year long course because there is a main building block in that course - proofs. Geom in the summer does not have the time to for me to teach teach and for my students to learn and practice proofs. Proofs take time to learn. I tell my kids it's like training for a marathon - you can't get your body ready to run that far in 6 weeks. It takes lots of work and just plain putting in the time for the body to build that kind of strength and endurance. You can't shortcut the procedure. Proofs are like that. With proofs, especially formal proofs, you learn to formulate and organize your hypotheses, and to explain and justify them with the laws and rules of mathematics. It's a real struggle for most, but oh, so worth it - proofs are so good for progressing to advanced levels of mathematical thinking!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Math teacher here. Recommend taking either Alg 1 one year, preferably in 9th, then geometry the next year, or taking Alg 1 one year, preferably 9th, then Geometry and Alg 2 concurrently, preferably in 10th.

I have found that students taking Algebra 1 in 7th or 8th usually get taught a watered down course conceptually - their brains (with a few notable exceptions) just aren't ready for the concepts, even if they can perform the rote operations. But admin and parents want their little darlings to get good grades rather than the grade they'd probably get if they got a full Alg 1 course, so the course is watered down (either all the concepts are taught but not in depth, or some concepts are just skipped.) Then when they take Alg 2, I can't teach it with full rigor because I end up having to reteach the concepts they should have known already, but don't because their Alg 1 course was watered down, therefore I can't get through the full Alg 2 course.

I have a fair amount of success with the kids who take Geom and Alg 2 concurrently in 10th. Those kids are usually already advanced in math, so taking those two courses at the same time isn't usually a problem. But without a strong Alg 1 foundation, they will struggle in both Geom and Alg 2 and frankly all subsequent math courses.

I advocate for taking Geom as a year long course because there is a main building block in that course - proofs. Geom in the summer does not have the time to for me to teach teach and for my students to learn and practice proofs. Proofs take time to learn. I tell my kids it's like training for a marathon - you can't get your body ready to run that far in 6 weeks. It takes lots of work and just plain putting in the time for the body to build that kind of strength and endurance. You can't shortcut the procedure. Proofs are like that. With proofs, especially formal proofs, you learn to formulate and organize your hypotheses, and to explain and justify them with the laws and rules of mathematics. It's a real struggle for most, but oh, so worth it - proofs are so good for progressing to advanced levels of mathematical thinking!

Another teacher here. Listen to the above teacher, very good advice! A few caveats: While proofs are fantastic for developing strong deductive and logical skills, the artificial two column format proof environment in geometry class can actually hinder their development, and even bore them to death. In the real world, a mathematical proof is written in free form 'essay' natural language format. In geometry class there are certain unnecessary stringent rules forced upon kids. A good teacher knows not to fixate on these and instead focus on the logic and reasoning in a problem. If throughout the year students feel like they do not have any room for creativity in a geometry proof, either the problem is not very interesting, or the 2 column proof format is too rigid.

[Anonymous]

I took honors geo over the summer after completing Algebra a year early. Looking back not sure why I was in such a hurry but it was never an issue for me. I got A's in all my subsequent HS math and even went on to major in math undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Another teacher here. Listen to the above teacher, very good advice! A few caveats: While proofs are fantastic for developing strong deductive and logical skills, the artificial two column format proof environment in geometry class can actually hinder their development, and even bore them to death. In the real world, a mathematical proof is written in free form 'essay' natural language format. In geometry class there are certain unnecessary stringent rules forced upon kids. A good teacher knows not to fixate on these and instead focus on the logic and reasoning in a problem. If throughout the year students feel like they do not have any room for creativity in a geometry proof, either the problem is not very interesting, or the 2 column proof format is too rigid.

Yet another math teacher here.

Both formal proofs and paragraph proofs have their place.

While I agree that paragraph proofs (i.e., essay proofs) are very useful for free-forming your ideas so you can get to the root of the problem, formal proofs are really valuable, too. They are great for succinctly breaking down a problem into easy steps, and showing those steps - just as math language does. For example, breaking down an English problem - words - into math language - such as algebra symbols - can make it much more easily solved, because of the use of symbolic representation, one of the wonderful values of algebra especially. Two-column, or formal, proofs can be easier to understand for the reader too, than essay proofs, because a formal proof is basically a list, a list of statements and the reasons for each of those statements. Unlike a paragraph, you can understand everything at a glance.

It takes time to learn to use this "tool" - the method of writing a proof - just as it takes time to learn to use any tool. It takes work on my (the teacher's) part to break down the process and make it as interesting and easy to learn as I can, but it will take work on the students' part to learn to use that particular tool of mathematics.

Not everything a student learns should involve "creativity - some things such as learning how to do a formal proof just take work and have to be done, because it will be so helpful in later math classes, and also in life. Learning to make a series of statements that flow logically and sequentially from a hypothesis to a conclusion and being able to back up each step with a "law" or "rule," and being able to write it in a list form to make it easy for your audience to read and understand, applies to other areas besides math - for example, computers and law.

I think that many math teachers don't teach formal proofs because they are both hard to teach and hard for students to "get." But just because somehting is hard doesn't mean it doesn't have great value and isn't greatly useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:51 again.
OP-- we were in a similar situation and were worried that kid would look weaker than classmates when applying to school by being a year behind some other students. We asked the counselor to write the explanation in the counselor's letter, and kid had AP-BC calc senior year which was in any case at our school designated as 'the most rigorous track' (the fact that many kids went onto multivariate senior year, notwithstanding).

Obviously, it's impossible to know how this was ultimately viewed by colleges but kid did get into Ivy so it clearly wasn't seen in too negative a light

you can always take Calc or Stat in college. It’s no big deal—Professor

[Anonymous]

My DC is doing that now in VA--HG and HA2/TRIG in 9th grade--they are actually doing great in it and have A+.We did this so my kids could access HL2 in HS as we are at an IB school. My kid isnt a nerd and does stuff with friends all the time. As long as your kid has strong ALG1 skills they should be OK. I would NOT rec anything over the summer.

[Anonymous]

+1 for Geometry in summer school, but if you care about education, please don't do *only* that. Do independent home study (AoPS / Alcumus, Khan, etc, buy a cheap used textbook) beforehand to prep, and afterward to review/extend. Cramming math leads to forgetting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would let kid take algebra in 8th, and concurrently enroll him in AOPS geometry (full year course, self paced). Then have him do geometry over the summer for credit. It's too much material to cram in the summer and understand but if he did a a "first pass" at home he could probably get it.

This is a very smart idea, although AoPS only offers live classes for geometry, which is a good thing IMO since getting feedback on proofs is important. See if you can work with his algebra teacher to let him do some geometry work in math class once he's done with his algebra classwork.

He could also take intro to algebra A (which is most all of an algebra 1 class IMO) from now through the summer along with algebra 1 summer school for credit and then take geometry at the school and AoPS geometry or intro to algebra b during the school year.

If you can get the school to accept AoPS for credit (they're WASC accredited as a Supplementary Education Program) then things would be much easier

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would let kid take algebra in 8th, and concurrently enroll him in AOPS geometry (full year course, self paced). Then have him do geometry over the summer for credit. It's too much material to cram in the summer and understand but if he did a a "first pass" at home he could probably get it.

This is a very smart idea, although AoPS only offers live classes for geometry, which is a good thing IMO since getting feedback on proofs is important. See if you can work with his algebra teacher to let him do some geometry work in math class once he's done with his algebra classwork.

He could also take intro to algebra A (which is most all of an algebra 1 class IMO) from now through the summer along with algebra 1 summer school for credit and then take geometry at the school and AoPS geometry or intro to algebra b during the school year.

If you can get the school to accept AoPS for credit (they're WASC accredited as a Supplementary Education Program) then things would be much easier

Is AOPS only for very mathy kids?