LCPS - our middle school is combining honors and academic level!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The honors classes are a joke. Every parent wants their kids in them so they are "advanced" in name only. it is useless to have the academic classes too.

They're not a joke in school systems that allow teachers to teach honors students at an appropriately high level.

Yes they are because there is no minimum requirement a student has to meet to take these classes. I have 10th graders who still don’t capitalize names and write their I lowercase and can’t structure a paragraph because they don’t use punctuation requesting honors because that’s what their parents want. And they can take it. Nothing stops them. A lot of kids get tracked for honors early on because they’re quiet / well behaved and/or white or Asian and then they just get this mindset that “I am an honors kid” despite lacking academic giftedness or strong work ethic or aptitude. So the honors classes aren’t even rigorous anymore because any kid can take them and then you have to water it all down for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The honors classes are a joke. Every parent wants their kids in them so they are "advanced" in name only. it is useless to have the academic classes too.

They're not a joke in school systems that allow teachers to teach honors students at an appropriately high level.

Unfortunately, LCPS is not one of those school systems.

All this will do is dumb down the already easy “honors” classes. Students are only really challenged in AP classes.

[Anonymous]

I live in Loudoun and don't understand how there can be so much variation in what middle schools are doing... essentially where you live can result in very different educational experiences for your middle schooler, and these are NOT supposed to be charter schools, they are all supposed to be following the same course catalogue and curriculum standards.

I've heard that many of the middle schools are essentially doing away with honors -- you don't know unless you ask (to the point that if this concerns you, I wouldn't buy a house in Loudoun without finding out first -- and I say this as someone who lives in Loudoun). Some of them make all classes "honors" so effectively there are no honors, and some of them have blended classes so that one kid can have "honors" on their schedule and another has "academic" on their schedule but they are actually in the exact same class together. There's also a middle school that has shifted to being a Project-Based Learning school that strongly emphasizes/pushes PBL across all subjects (even more so than most schools are already doing these days)... again not a charter, just part of the normal school system.

The one thing to keep in mind about Loudoun... you at least have the option to use special permission to move your kids to a different school, and there's usually space. Only issue is you have to drive them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in Loudoun and don't understand how there can be so much variation in what middle schools are doing... essentially where you live can result in very different educational experiences for your middle schooler, and these are NOT supposed to be charter schools, they are all supposed to be following the same course catalogue and curriculum standards.

I've heard that many of the middle schools are essentially doing away with honors -- you don't know unless you ask (to the point that if this concerns you, I wouldn't buy a house in Loudoun without finding out first -- and I say this as someone who lives in Loudoun). Some of them make all classes "honors" so effectively there are no honors, and some of them have blended classes so that one kid can have "honors" on their schedule and another has "academic" on their schedule but they are actually in the exact same class together. There's also a middle school that has shifted to being a Project-Based Learning school that strongly emphasizes/pushes PBL across all subjects (even more so than most schools are already doing these days)... again not a charter, just part of the normal school system.

The one thing to keep in mind about Loudoun... you at least have the option to use special permission to move your kids to a different school, and there's usually space. Only issue is you have to drive them.

OP here. The bold is what our school is doing, and most parents are none the wiser and have no idea when I tell them. It feels really shady to me. If the principal truly believes what he is doing is in best interest of the students, why is he trying to hide it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Loudoun and don't understand how there can be so much variation in what middle schools are doing... essentially where you live can result in very different educational experiences for your middle schooler, and these are NOT supposed to be charter schools, they are all supposed to be following the same course catalogue and curriculum standards.

I've heard that many of the middle schools are essentially doing away with honors -- you don't know unless you ask (to the point that if this concerns you, I wouldn't buy a house in Loudoun without finding out first -- and I say this as someone who lives in Loudoun). Some of them make all classes "honors" so effectively there are no honors, and some of them have blended classes so that one kid can have "honors" on their schedule and another has "academic" on their schedule but they are actually in the exact same class together. There's also a middle school that has shifted to being a Project-Based Learning school that strongly emphasizes/pushes PBL across all subjects (even more so than most schools are already doing these days)... again not a charter, just part of the normal school system.

The one thing to keep in mind about Loudoun... you at least have the option to use special permission to move your kids to a different school, and there's usually space. Only issue is you have to drive them.

OP here. The bold is what our school is doing, and most parents are none the wiser and have no idea when I tell them. It feels really shady to me. If the principal truly believes what he is doing is in best interest of the students, why is he trying to hide it?

Nobody is hiding it. It’s a well known curriculum feature in LCPS middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Loudoun and don't understand how there can be so much variation in what middle schools are doing... essentially where you live can result in very different educational experiences for your middle schooler, and these are NOT supposed to be charter schools, they are all supposed to be following the same course catalogue and curriculum standards.

I've heard that many of the middle schools are essentially doing away with honors -- you don't know unless you ask (to the point that if this concerns you, I wouldn't buy a house in Loudoun without finding out first -- and I say this as someone who lives in Loudoun). Some of them make all classes "honors" so effectively there are no honors, and some of them have blended classes so that one kid can have "honors" on their schedule and another has "academic" on their schedule but they are actually in the exact same class together. There's also a middle school that has shifted to being a Project-Based Learning school that strongly emphasizes/pushes PBL across all subjects (even more so than most schools are already doing these days)... again not a charter, just part of the normal school system.

The one thing to keep in mind about Loudoun... you at least have the option to use special permission to move your kids to a different school, and there's usually space. Only issue is you have to drive them.

OP here. The bold is what our school is doing, and most parents are none the wiser and have no idea when I tell them. It feels really shady to me. If the principal truly believes what he is doing is in best interest of the students, why is he trying to hide it?

Nobody is hiding it. It’s a well known curriculum feature in LCPS middle schools.

It is definitely not well known at our school. And its deceptive. Half the class has a schedule that says "English 6H" and the other have says "English 6." There is NO difference in the class, so why label them differently? To deceive the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Loudoun and don't understand how there can be so much variation in what middle schools are doing... essentially where you live can result in very different educational experiences for your middle schooler, and these are NOT supposed to be charter schools, they are all supposed to be following the same course catalogue and curriculum standards.

I've heard that many of the middle schools are essentially doing away with honors -- you don't know unless you ask (to the point that if this concerns you, I wouldn't buy a house in Loudoun without finding out first -- and I say this as someone who lives in Loudoun). Some of them make all classes "honors" so effectively there are no honors, and some of them have blended classes so that one kid can have "honors" on their schedule and another has "academic" on their schedule but they are actually in the exact same class together. There's also a middle school that has shifted to being a Project-Based Learning school that strongly emphasizes/pushes PBL across all subjects (even more so than most schools are already doing these days)... again not a charter, just part of the normal school system.

The one thing to keep in mind about Loudoun... you at least have the option to use special permission to move your kids to a different school, and there's usually space. Only issue is you have to drive them.

OP here. The bold is what our school is doing, and most parents are none the wiser and have no idea when I tell them. It feels really shady to me. If the principal truly believes what he is doing is in best interest of the students, why is he trying to hide it?

Nobody is hiding it. It’s a well known curriculum feature in LCPS middle schools.

It is definitely not well known at our school. And its deceptive. Half the class has a schedule that says "English 6H" and the other have says "English 6." There is NO difference in the class, so why label them differently? To deceive the parents.

My guess is that to some extent they're trying to curtail complaints from parents who want their children to take self-contained honors classes. Which apparently LCPS is increasingly reluctant to offer at the middle school level, except to the extent they have to differentiate math instruction.

There's still the Spectrum class (GT program), but that's just one class out of the block schedule and is gifted enrichment, not acceleration across the regular academic courses (and Spectrum in and of itself gets a lot of mixed reviews depending on the teacher, but that's a different issue).

Ages ago I had a first grade teacher tell me my daughter would basically have to wait until middle school to be academically challenged, because then could she take honors classes... so much for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Loudoun and don't understand how there can be so much variation in what middle schools are doing... essentially where you live can result in very different educational experiences for your middle schooler, and these are NOT supposed to be charter schools, they are all supposed to be following the same course catalogue and curriculum standards.

I've heard that many of the middle schools are essentially doing away with honors -- you don't know unless you ask (to the point that if this concerns you, I wouldn't buy a house in Loudoun without finding out first -- and I say this as someone who lives in Loudoun). Some of them make all classes "honors" so effectively there are no honors, and some of them have blended classes so that one kid can have "honors" on their schedule and another has "academic" on their schedule but they are actually in the exact same class together. There's also a middle school that has shifted to being a Project-Based Learning school that strongly emphasizes/pushes PBL across all subjects (even more so than most schools are already doing these days)... again not a charter, just part of the normal school system.

The one thing to keep in mind about Loudoun... you at least have the option to use special permission to move your kids to a different school, and there's usually space. Only issue is you have to drive them.

OP here. The bold is what our school is doing, and most parents are none the wiser and have no idea when I tell them. It feels really shady to me. If the principal truly believes what he is doing is in best interest of the students, why is he trying to hide it?

Nobody is hiding it. It’s a well known curriculum feature in LCPS middle schools.

It is definitely not well known at our school. And its deceptive. Half the class has a schedule that says "English 6H" and the other have says "English 6." There is NO difference in the class, so why label them differently? To deceive the parents.

I don’t see the issue with that. Likely the honors is just taught faster, more interesting conversations and more engaged students. The material is the same.

I think you all don’t get that there are lots of students who don’t care about learning, can’t be disciplined and ruin school for everyone else. Honors doesn’t have those kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Loudoun and don't understand how there can be so much variation in what middle schools are doing... essentially where you live can result in very different educational experiences for your middle schooler, and these are NOT supposed to be charter schools, they are all supposed to be following the same course catalogue and curriculum standards.

I've heard that many of the middle schools are essentially doing away with honors -- you don't know unless you ask (to the point that if this concerns you, I wouldn't buy a house in Loudoun without finding out first -- and I say this as someone who lives in Loudoun). Some of them make all classes "honors" so effectively there are no honors, and some of them have blended classes so that one kid can have "honors" on their schedule and another has "academic" on their schedule but they are actually in the exact same class together. There's also a middle school that has shifted to being a Project-Based Learning school that strongly emphasizes/pushes PBL across all subjects (even more so than most schools are already doing these days)... again not a charter, just part of the normal school system.

The one thing to keep in mind about Loudoun... you at least have the option to use special permission to move your kids to a different school, and there's usually space. Only issue is you have to drive them.

OP here. The bold is what our school is doing, and most parents are none the wiser and have no idea when I tell them. It feels really shady to me. If the principal truly believes what he is doing is in best interest of the students, why is he trying to hide it?

Nobody is hiding it. It’s a well known curriculum feature in LCPS middle schools.

It is definitely not well known at our school. And its deceptive. Half the class has a schedule that says "English 6H" and the other have says "English 6." There is NO difference in the class, so why label them differently? To deceive the parents.

I don’t see the issue with that. Likely the honors is just taught faster, more interesting conversations and more engaged students. The material is the same.

I think you all don’t get that there are lots of students who don’t care about learning, can’t be disciplined and ruin school for everyone else. Honors doesn’t have those kids.

No, I don't think you get it. The honors class and the academic class are the *exact same class*. In other words, there is no distinct honors class. One group of kids has a schedule that says "honors" and another group has a schedule that says "academic" but in reality both groups are in the same classroom, at the same day/time, with the same teacher. These are not separate classes. Make sense?

I think there's a chance that the kids with honors designations are supposed to be given slightly different assignments than the kids with academic designations (keeping in mind that both groups are in the very same class). But I don't know how this plays out in reality. Maybe someone else can chime in here.

Note that not all schools are doing this "blended" approach... some just designate all students as "honors" so essentially no one is honors. I think there are still a few middle schools in Loudoun using the "old" approach of having distinct honors and academic classes.

[Anonymous]

They call it honors because they claim they differentiate for every kid in the class. I don’t know how you know what the class is coded on every other kid’s transcript but most likely it’s honors for all. My middle schooler has honors for all core classes minus self contained math which is clearly designated as such. It’s just all one class so they call them all honors. AFAIK none are coded academic anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They call it honors because they claim they differentiate for every kid in the class. I don’t know how you know what the class is coded on every other kid’s transcript but most likely it’s honors for all. My middle schooler has honors for all core classes minus self contained math which is clearly designated as such. It’s just all one class so they call them all honors. AFAIK none are coded academic anymore.

It varies school by school.

[Anonymous]

Have you considered suing the school system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They call it honors because they claim they differentiate for every kid in the class. I don’t know how you know what the class is coded on every other kid’s transcript but most likely it’s honors for all. My middle schooler has honors for all core classes minus self contained math which is clearly designated as such. It’s just all one class so they call them all honors. AFAIK none are coded academic anymore.

Everyone is an honors student?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+ Some of them make all classes "honors" so effectively there are no honors, and some of them have blended classes so that one kid can have "honors" on their schedule and another has "academic" on their schedule but they are actually in the exact same class together.

I have a junior in LCPS, and this was true back when she was in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The honors classes are a joke. Every parent wants their kids in them so they are "advanced" in name only. it is useless to have the academic classes too.

They're not a joke in school systems that allow teachers to teach honors students at an appropriately high level.

Yes they are because there is no minimum requirement a student has to meet to take these classes. I have 10th graders who still don’t capitalize names and write their I lowercase and can’t structure a paragraph because they don’t use punctuation requesting honors because that’s what their parents want. And they can take it. Nothing stops them. A lot of kids get tracked for honors early on because they’re quiet / well behaved and/or white or Asian and then they just get this mindset that “I am an honors kid” despite lacking academic giftedness or strong work ethic or aptitude. So the honors classes aren’t even rigorous anymore because any kid can take them and then you have to water it all down for them.

What you've described is not true for top tier public schools with an academic focus.