AP Precalculus vs Honors Precalculus

[Anonymous]

...no midterms...no finals...

You know, just like college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...no midterms...no finals...

You know, just like college.

One advantage of the AP classes vs Honors is that the AP exam serves as a final, so students need to retain the course content all year (even though the exam has no bearing on their report card grade).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...no midterms...no finals...

You know, just like college.

Many college courses do not have exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honors Pre Calc prepares you for AP Calc BC (though many will still take AB). Is AP Pre Calc designed to prepare for AB or BC? I wonder if Honors might be the more rigorous class?

As per the College Board, “This course is not a prerequisite for and does not have to be followed by AP Calculus AB or BC.”
https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-precalculus/about-ap-precalculus

AP Precalculus was primarily designed for students taking 9th grade Algebra 1 so they have certification of their math skills when they go to college. In its description of AP Precalc, the College Board emphasizes themes that are popular right now in reform math circles, namely teaching math through modeling applications to real world problems. This approach is meant to appeal to students who might otherwise not be interested in math and prepare them for a wide-range of careers, not just STEM. "In this course, students study a broad spectrum of function types that are foundational for careers in mathematics, physics, biology, health science, social science, and data science. Furthermore, as AP Precalculus may be the last mathematics course of a student’s secondary education, the course is structured to provide a coherent capstone experience and is not exclusively focused on preparation for future courses." College Board notes that technology should be used throughout the course although they still want students to be able to do some calculations by hand. AP Precalc does not list logs or any trig beyond right triangles as a prerequisite to make it accessible to more students.
https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/ap-precalculus-proposed-course-framework.pdf

Since AP Precalc was not designed as a preparatory course for AB or BC calculus, it seems unlikely to be as rigorous as Precalculus courses that are designed to prepare students for high school calculus. Of course, districts have leeway in how they craft courses and could add additional content if desired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalculus is unique from all other APs because Precalculus is not a college-level class. Michele Breen, Math Department Head, says, “Typically, AP classes are for college credit. Precalculus is a senior-level course so it is a new thing for the College Board to offer a non college-level class as an AP”.

The College Board says the goal of the new AP Precalculus course is to prepare a much broader group of students to thrive in college math courses by giving them an opportunity to take a class at the college-level intensity in high school, regardless of where they start in high school math.

College algebra is basically the same thing as precalculus, and it is offered at the vast majority of colleges. Most colleges have 10 sections of college Algebra for every section of Linear Algebra or Multivariable Calc. This matches the math many people actually take as first year college students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalculus will be a new class offered for the first time in 23-24.

LOL was going to say there's no such thing but I guess with the proliferation of honors classes and grade inflation, it's not unexpected

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalculus is unique from all other APs because Precalculus is not a college-level class. Michele Breen, Math Department Head, says, “Typically, AP classes are for college credit. Precalculus is a senior-level course so it is a new thing for the College Board to offer a non college-level class as an AP”.

The College Board says the goal of the new AP Precalculus course is to prepare a much broader group of students to thrive in college math courses by giving them an opportunity to take a class at the college-level intensity in high school, regardless of where they start in high school math.

What a bunch of BS. Are they going to start offering AP English 9 & 10. Sick of the money grab!

That's in happening since more exams = moe $$$

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalculus will be a new class offered for the first time in 23-24.

LOL was going to say there's no such thing but I guess with the proliferation of honors classes and grade inflation, it's not unexpected

It's new from the College Board, not MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalculus is unique from all other APs because Precalculus is not a college-level class. Michele Breen, Math Department Head, says, “Typically, AP classes are for college credit. Precalculus is a senior-level course so it is a new thing for the College Board to offer a non college-level class as an AP”.

The College Board says the goal of the new AP Precalculus course is to prepare a much broader group of students to thrive in college math courses by giving them an opportunity to take a class at the college-level intensity in high school, regardless of where they start in high school math.

College algebra is basically the same thing as precalculus, and it is offered at the vast majority of colleges. Most colleges have 10 sections of college Algebra for every section of Linear Algebra or Multivariable Calc. This matches the math many people actually take as first year college students.

College algebra content varies by college but often has a curriculum similar to traditional Algebra 2 with some additional precalculus content added in. (Traditional Algebra 2 content can be seen in Khan's Algebra 2. Reform math has been steadily shifting Algebra 2 content to Precalculus to make Algebra 2 more accessible to a wider range of students, taking out logs and trig and decreasing overall Algebra 2 rigor.) While college algebra is the most popular college math course, this is heavily skewed by community college enrollment. At selective colleges, it may not be offered at all.

AP Precalculus is useful for students who take Algebra 1 in 9th grade and wish to build a strong foundation for any math they might ultimately take at college. However, a prior PP asked whether it was the best preparation if a student wants high school calculus. In that case, a high school Precalculus course designed to prepare students for calculus would likely be better. For instance, the AP Precalc exam does not cover parametric equations, conic sections, limits, matrices, or vectors, all topics which are often covered in Precalculus courses designed to prepare students for high school calculus.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like it is less rigorous than honors precalculus and possibly than non-honors precalculus. Is MCPS even going to offer it? Sounds like a waste to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalculus is unique from all other APs because Precalculus is not a college-level class. Michele Breen, Math Department Head, says, “Typically, AP classes are for college credit. Precalculus is a senior-level course so it is a new thing for the College Board to offer a non college-level class as an AP”.

The College Board says the goal of the new AP Precalculus course is to prepare a much broader group of students to thrive in college math courses by giving them an opportunity to take a class at the college-level intensity in high school, regardless of where they start in high school math.

What a bunch of BS. Are they going to start offering AP English 9 & 10. Sick of the money grab!

I would welcome AP English 9 and 10--the "honors" English classes are so diluted. It would be nice to have a challenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalculus is unique from all other APs because Precalculus is not a college-level class. Michele Breen, Math Department Head, says, “Typically, AP classes are for college credit. Precalculus is a senior-level course so it is a new thing for the College Board to offer a non college-level class as an AP”.

The College Board says the goal of the new AP Precalculus course is to prepare a much broader group of students to thrive in college math courses by giving them an opportunity to take a class at the college-level intensity in high school, regardless of where they start in high school math.

What a bunch of BS. Are they going to start offering AP English 9 & 10. Sick of the money grab!

I would welcome AP English 9 and 10--the "honors" English classes are so diluted. It would be nice to have a challenge.

Depends what level of rigor the APs would adopt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalculus is unique from all other APs because Precalculus is not a college-level class. Michele Breen, Math Department Head, says, “Typically, AP classes are for college credit. Precalculus is a senior-level course so it is a new thing for the College Board to offer a non college-level class as an AP”.

The College Board says the goal of the new AP Precalculus course is to prepare a much broader group of students to thrive in college math courses by giving them an opportunity to take a class at the college-level intensity in high school, regardless of where they start in high school math.

What a bunch of BS. Are they going to start offering AP English 9 & 10. Sick of the money grab!

I would welcome AP English 9 and 10--the "honors" English classes are so diluted. It would be nice to have a challenge.

These already exist as "Pre-AP" courses. The curriculum is purchased by the district, so no year end test to pay for by the kids.

Algebra 1
Algebra 2
Geometry with Statistics
Biology
Chemistry
English 1
English 2
World History and Geography
Visual and Performing Arts

https://pre-ap.collegeboard.org/courses/descriptions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like it is less rigorous than honors precalculus and possibly than non-honors precalculus. Is MCPS even going to offer it? Sounds like a waste to do so.

MCPS courses do seem to have broader scope than the AP Precalculus exam, as the latter does not cover parametric equations, conic sections, vectors, matrices, or limits. College Board notes some additional content could be covered in an AP Precalc class beyond what is covered on the AP Precalc exam. However, it's hard to know how much additional content could be successfully covered post-AP exam, particularly if many of the students do not intend to go on to calculus and may not need/want additional coverage.
https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/ap-precalculus-proposed-course-framework.pdf (page 12)

http://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/CourseDetails/Index/MAT2031A
"MAT2031A/MAT2031B Precalculus A
0.5 credit per semester
PreCalculus courses combine the study of Trigonometry Elementary Functions Analytic Geometry and Math Analysis topics as preparation for calculus Topics typically include the study of complex numbers polynomial logarithmic exponential rational right trigonometric and circular functions and their relations inverses and graphs trigonometric identities and equations solutions of right and oblique triangles vectors the polar coordinate system conic sections Boolean algebra and symbolic logic mathematical induction matrix algebra sequences and series and limits and continuity."

http://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/CourseDetails/Index/MAT2048A
"MAT2048A/MAT2048B Honor Precalculus A
0.5 credit per semester
Precalculus completes the formal study of the elementary functions begun in Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. Students focus on the use of technology, modeling, and problem solving. Functions studied include polynomial, exponential, logarithmic, rational, radical, piece-wise, and trigonometric and circular functions and their inverses. Parametric equations, vectors, and infinite sequences and series are also studied."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalculus is unique from all other APs because Precalculus is not a college-level class. Michele Breen, Math Department Head, says, “Typically, AP classes are for college credit. Precalculus is a senior-level course so it is a new thing for the College Board to offer a non college-level class as an AP”.

The College Board says the goal of the new AP Precalculus course is to prepare a much broader group of students to thrive in college math courses by giving them an opportunity to take a class at the college-level intensity in high school, regardless of where they start in high school math.

What a bunch of BS. Are they going to start offering AP English 9 & 10. Sick of the money grab!

I would welcome AP English 9 and 10--the "honors" English classes are so diluted. It would be nice to have a challenge.

These already exist as "Pre-AP" courses. The curriculum is purchased by the district, so no year end test to pay for by the kids.

Algebra 1
Algebra 2
Geometry with Statistics
Biology
Chemistry
English 1
English 2
World History and Geography
Visual and Performing Arts

https://pre-ap.collegeboard.org/courses/descriptions

Thanks, good to know. However, wouldn't the lack of an exam undercut the effectiveness? Without an exam, there would be less urgency to cover everything if the class gets bogged down somewhere. Also, how do you know how well material was covered without an externally scored, standardized exam? The latter is a big reason why APs are attractive.