When to submit scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The optional score choice seems to make the entire process harder. My DS was scoring crazy high on practice tests but just couldn't replicate it on the actual SAT. And did about the same the last two go arounds so superscoring didn't work either.

He has a 1440. A decent score but not as high as some of the averages for the schools he is interested in. So, for example, if the range of a school is 1400-1540 (making 1470 the middle of the range), should he submit or not submit the scores? Within the range or just at or below the median?

That's a wide range. I'd use the range for enrolled students from before test optional policies. It can be found in the 2020-21 Common Data Set, if the college publishes.

Terrible advice. If your DS is a well off white kid, don't submit to any school where his score is below the current median. (Yes, current scores are inflated, but it doesn't matter--schools don't want them to go down.)

I would say the reverse, the top schools aren’t using test optional on unhooked kids. For the few top schools that have released data, kids who apply test blind are admitted at lower rates than those who submit scores. Unless the particular schools your son is applying to provide instruction, the truth is no one knows and we are guessing. If it were my kid, I would submit those scores everywhere, because I would rather have them see kid is just off the median than have them assume the test score is a liability.

But what you don’t know in that data is the strength of the rest of the application. Someone on Reddit got their Duke application (after they got in). They said TO was scored out of 25 and with test was scored out of 30, with 5 being a perfect score in every category. So a perfect TO candidate is 25/25 and a perfect test candidate is 30/30. Tests can bring you up a little if they are strong and something else is weak.

And what if cut off for admission is a 25? So only perfect test optional get in but a lot more leeway for those with good scores? That brings us back to better to submit a score that is slightly outside what people think is the preferred range because the kid might pick up a few extra points.

My understanding is that they would be different cut offs, depending on TO or not. So TO, maybe the cut off is 23/25 and the rest is 28/30. With the test, getting an extra 5 gets you a higher percentage. In other words, if you get 3 points off for your essays, he same candidate would have 22/25 without test scores but 27/30 with them, so it bumps them up to have test scores. Read the Reddit post on A2c and it might explain better than I am. It was an actual Duke admissions file, so good source.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The optional score choice seems to make the entire process harder. My DS was scoring crazy high on practice tests but just couldn't replicate it on the actual SAT. And did about the same the last two go arounds so superscoring didn't work either.

He has a 1440. A decent score but not as high as some of the averages for the schools he is interested in. So, for example, if the range of a school is 1400-1540 (making 1470 the middle of the range), should he submit or not submit the scores? Within the range or just at or below the median?

That's a wide range. I'd use the range for enrolled students from before test optional policies. It can be found in the 2020-21 Common Data Set, if the college publishes.

Terrible advice. If your DS is a well off white kid, don't submit to any school where his score is below the current median. (Yes, current scores are inflated, but it doesn't matter--schools don't want them to go down.)

I would say the reverse, the top schools aren’t using test optional on unhooked kids. For the few top schools that have released data, kids who apply test blind are admitted at lower rates than those who submit scores. Unless the particular schools your son is applying to provide instruction, the truth is no one knows and we are guessing. If it were my kid, I would submit those scores everywhere, because I would rather have them see kid is just off the median than have them assume the test score is a liability.

But what you don’t know in that data is the strength of the rest of the application. Someone on Reddit got their Duke application (after they got in). They said TO was scored out of 25 and with test was scored out of 30, with 5 being a perfect score in every category. So a perfect TO candidate is 25/25 and a perfect test candidate is 30/30. Tests can bring you up a little if they are strong and something else is weak.

And what if cut off for admission is a 25? So only perfect test optional get in but a lot more leeway for those with good scores? That brings us back to better to submit a score that is slightly outside what people think is the preferred range because the kid might pick up a few extra points.

My understanding is that they would be different cut offs, depending on TO or not. So TO, maybe the cut off is 23/25 and the rest is 28/30. With the test, getting an extra 5 gets you a higher percentage. In other words, if you get 3 points off for your essays, he same candidate would have 22/25 without test scores but 27/30 with them, so it bumps them up to have test scores. Read the Reddit post on A2c and it might explain better than I am. It was an actual Duke admissions file, so good source.

Any way to link to the Reddit post or provide a good search term? I can’t find it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We did the prep after taking the first test and scoring in the 1300s. Got a tutor who said my DS could score in the 1500s easily if he could get over his test anxiety. Was scoring over 1500 on every practice test towards the end. But he took it in October and November and it was 1430 and 1440 and was crushing to him. So we are done.

DS is an interesting kid but no hook. He will be a well off latino male with good grades and some interesting internships in a connected subject area, a part time job, a sport that he is not competitive in (martial arts but no tournaments) and a baking hobby. He will be legacy at one reach school that he might want to attend.

So, flip a coin, roll a dice...this has become such a game. Before, you looked at the ranges and if you were within it, you applied. Now you apply and need to figure out whether to share all your data or let them wonder if the score was just on the lower end or didn't hit the mark at all.

For a white kid, I wouldn't submit (because I'd bet the AO wouldn't really be questioning whether the kid could hang academically and wouldn't want to take the hit to the school's "average" test scores). For a Latino kid, I'd submit (because I'd bet that the AO would be happy to take that "hit" to land a Latino kid who will be able to hang academically--which a 1440 supports regardless of any school's "average").

[Anonymous]

also depends on the weight that the school puts on test scores, per their CDS.

Scores are not at equal importance to all schools.

[Anonymous]

Read the article in the other post. Unfortunately the schools aren't treating test optional equally across the board so it really depends on the school.

Don't use the precovid data, that's not helpful. What we did was look to see how many students in the freshman class were submitted test optional, but even that data was 2 years old b/c the new CDS hadn't come out yet. For example, over 80% of Michigan's freshman class 2 years ago submitted test scores vs. a much lower percentage at some of the T40 privates DC was looking at. Which suggests to me that 2 cycles ago, Michigan wanted scores but DC still applied TO so we don't have high hopes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Read the article in the other post. Unfortunately the schools aren't treating test optional equally across the board so it really depends on the school.

Don't use the precovid data, that's not helpful. What we did was look to see how many students in the freshman class were submitted test optional, but even that data was 2 years old b/c the new CDS hadn't come out yet. For example, over 80% of Michigan's freshman class 2 years ago submitted test scores vs. a much lower percentage at some of the T40 privates DC was looking at. Which suggests to me that 2 cycles ago, Michigan wanted scores but DC still applied TO so we don't have high hopes.

*admitted

[Anonymous]

Echo poster who thinks it is school specific. I would check CDS to see how highly school ranks test scores and assess that against where kid’s particular score falls within interquartile range.

I would also evaluate how strong kid’s app is for other areas.

There is no single answer on whether to submit anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We did the prep after taking the first test and scoring in the 1300s. Got a tutor who said my DS could score in the 1500s easily if he could get over his test anxiety. Was scoring over 1500 on every practice test towards the end. But he took it in October and November and it was 1430 and 1440 and was crushing to him. So we are done.

DS is an interesting kid but no hook. He will be a well off latino male with good grades and some interesting internships in a connected subject area, a part time job, a sport that he is not competitive in (martial arts but no tournaments) and a baking hobby. He will be legacy at one reach school that he might want to attend.

So, flip a coin, roll a dice...this has become such a game. Before, you looked at the ranges and if you were within it, you applied. Now you apply and need to figure out whether to share all your data or let them wonder if the score was just on the lower end or didn't hit the mark at all.

For a white kid, I wouldn't submit (because I'd bet the AO wouldn't really be questioning whether the kid could hang academically and wouldn't want to take the hit to the school's "average" test scores). For a Latino kid, I'd submit (because I'd bet that the AO would be happy to take that "hit" to land a Latino kid who will be able to hang academically--which a 1440 supports regardless of any school's "average").

I would say exactly the reverse, the ao would be more interested in the Latino kid regardless of test score. The white kid needs every positive data point they can bring.