Effect of higher numbers of applications?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this just at some schools? I’ve read at others applicants are way down.

Applicants have been down, even pre covid at many schools outside of the T50/T60. Class of 2022 was the largest class and itisgoing down from there. Schools have been planning for this and the continued dropoff over the next 5-10 years. So the T20-40 wont be affected, others will

I think this is part of the reason they’re all so crunched right now. No one wants to expand with a population drop off on the horizon. I agree the top schools are less affected by the population cliff, but any T20-40 school that expands will drop in the rankings.

The universities don't want to expand because they don't have the resources. Add 500 kids to your freshman class and by time they are seniors you have 2000 more students on campus. Is there space in all facilities (dorms/library/classrooms/dining/etc)? Can classes still be small sizes? Answer to that is no. Just look at many T50 schools who have had slightly larger classes the past 2-3 years (as in 200 students or so) and see the impacts on housing alone. I wouldn't want my kid at a school that adds students without adding infratstructure first.

According to a podcast on Freakonomics, they said the money is better spent on research as it has more impacts than expanding their schools. So they do have the resource just not for school expansions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this just at some schools? I’ve read at others applicants are way down.

Applicants have been down, even pre covid at many schools outside of the T50/T60. Class of 2022 was the largest class and itisgoing down from there. Schools have been planning for this and the continued dropoff over the next 5-10 years. So the T20-40 wont be affected, others will

I think this is part of the reason they’re all so crunched right now. No one wants to expand with a population drop off on the horizon. I agree the top schools are less affected by the population cliff, but any T20-40 school that expands will drop in the rankings.

It is pretty hard to just "expand" a school. You need more dorms, more classrooms, more professors etc.

[Anonymous]

Bring back the tests!! It's the only way to stop this madness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this just at some schools? I’ve read at others applicants are way down.

Applicants have been down, even pre covid at many schools outside of the T50/T60. Class of 2022 was the largest class and itisgoing down from there. Schools have been planning for this and the continued dropoff over the next 5-10 years. So the T20-40 wont be affected, others will

I think this is part of the reason they’re all so crunched right now. No one wants to expand with a population drop off on the horizon. I agree the top schools are less affected by the population cliff, but any T20-40 school that expands will drop in the rankings.

It is pretty hard to just "expand" a school. You need more dorms, more classrooms, more professors etc.

Exactly! That’s why no one wants to expand for a short-term bump in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Bring back the tests!! It's the only way to stop this madness.

Madness for whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this just at some schools? I’ve read at others applicants are way down.

Applicants have been down, even pre covid at many schools outside of the T50/T60. Class of 2022 was the largest class and itisgoing down from there. Schools have been planning for this and the continued dropoff over the next 5-10 years. So the T20-40 wont be affected, others will

I think this is part of the reason they’re all so crunched right now. No one wants to expand with a population drop off on the horizon. I agree the top schools are less affected by the population cliff, but any T20-40 school that expands will drop in the rankings.

The universities don't want to expand because they don't have the resources. Add 500 kids to your freshman class and by time they are seniors you have 2000 more students on campus. Is there space in all facilities (dorms/library/classrooms/dining/etc)? Can classes still be small sizes? Answer to that is no. Just look at many T50 schools who have had slightly larger classes the past 2-3 years (as in 200 students or so) and see the impacts on housing alone. I wouldn't want my kid at a school that adds students without adding infratstructure first.

According to a podcast on Freakonomics, they said the money is better spent on research as it has more impacts than expanding their schools. So they do have the resource just not for school expansions.

Even if they have the resources, building the infrastructure to support 2K new students is a huge outfront investment, and the infrastructure does not just go up overnight. Also, I'd argue most schools in the 6-8K (or smaller) want to remain that way. My kids didn't want to attend a school with 15K students---they wanted 5-8K (and not 2K as their HS had 3K and they wanted slightly larger). So most of the T10 schools are smaller and would loose a lot of why they are attractive if they added 2-3K students (even with infrastructure improvements)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this just at some schools? I’ve read at others applicants are way down.

Applicants have been down, even pre covid at many schools outside of the T50/T60. Class of 2022 was the largest class and itisgoing down from there. Schools have been planning for this and the continued dropoff over the next 5-10 years. So the T20-40 wont be affected, others will

I think this is part of the reason they’re all so crunched right now. No one wants to expand with a population drop off on the horizon. I agree the top schools are less affected by the population cliff, but any T20-40 school that expands will drop in the rankings.

It is pretty hard to just "expand" a school. You need more dorms, more classrooms, more professors etc.

Exactly! That’s why no one wants to expand for a short-term bump in admissions.

That and the fact that most of the "top schools" are in the 4-8K undergrad population. They want to remain that size for all the perks/benefits that come along with that size school. IMO they would loose some of their attraction if they became 15K+ schools .There are great state schools if you want one with 15K+.

[Anonymous]

When will this population drop off happen and does that mean that admissions to non T20 schools will be less competitive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When will this population drop off happen and does that mean that admissions to non T20 schools will be less competitive?

Not for 5 years or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Bring back the tests!! It's the only way to stop this madness.

Madness for whom?

Let me guess, your kid has a 4.4 GPA but just isn’t a good test taker. Oh, and there definitely isn’t ANY grade inflation at their school!

[Anonymous]

Glad my kids are in college and don't need to deal with this anymore. It's rough out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this just at some schools? I’ve read at others applicants are way down.

Applicants have been down, even pre covid at many schools outside of the T50/T60. Class of 2022 was the largest class and itisgoing down from there. Schools have been planning for this and the continued dropoff over the next 5-10 years. So the T20-40 wont be affected, others will

I think this is part of the reason they’re all so crunched right now. No one wants to expand with a population drop off on the horizon. I agree the top schools are less affected by the population cliff, but any T20-40 school that expands will drop in the rankings.

The universities don't want to expand because they don't have the resources. Add 500 kids to your freshman class and by time they are seniors you have 2000 more students on campus. Is there space in all facilities (dorms/library/classrooms/dining/etc)? Can classes still be small sizes? Answer to that is no. Just look at many T50 schools who have had slightly larger classes the past 2-3 years (as in 200 students or so) and see the impacts on housing alone. I wouldn't want my kid at a school that adds students without adding infratstructure first.

Truth. Vermont is one example. Not enough housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The effect of test optional (not having to submit SAT or ACT scores), are that many thousands of students who would never have applied to top 50 (maybe top 100) schools are applying, and some are getting in. This means some top test takers are not getting in at top schools. This means every student has to apply to more schools in order to get in somewhere they are willing to attend, even if it is not their top 1st, 3rd, or even 5th choice.

The results a few years from now will influence the future of TO. Are the TO students graduating, going on to meaningful employment or dropping out.

TO is here to stay. Some colleges might study the TO admits for first /freshman year ( since there's a claim that SAT/ACT is a predictor of freshman year performance) but that's it. No four-year studies. No post grad employment studies.

The SAT / ACT is only one data point at a snapshot in time when students are still in high school and nowhere their potential. College AOs know this and have adjusted accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Bring back the tests!! It's the only way to stop this madness.

For the most part, unless you're applying to University of California colleges, the tests are STILL here - just optional for most schools. Feel free to take the test.

If you mean revert back to making tests mandatory, that ain't happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Bring back the tests!! It's the only way to stop this madness.

Madness for whom?

Let me guess, your kid has a 4.4 GPA but just isn’t a good test taker. Oh, and there definitely isn’t ANY grade inflation at their school!

The "madness" is manufactured.

There are more applications than spots for the top schools. It's been like that for decades.