Positive review for Poolesville SMACS program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both the Poolesville and Blair SMACs are HS choice Magnet programs. Both offer classes that are not offered in other HS curriculum (especially advanced math). Both are non-lottery applications. However, both no longer use a Nationally-recognized test to qualify applicants, since MAP is only an indicator of "grade-level" progress and the course offerings are somewhat static, so it's not really a G-T program per-se, although most G-T kids are "grade-level" advanced, so there is significant overlap.

A factor that some college admissions boards may take note of are the national school rankings. College admissions boards don't normally take the time to examine each HS individually, so will rely upon past performance of students they received as well as well-known national rankings as indicators of success. For the latter, US News is probably the most widely-known national school ranking system, however, GreatSchools, Niche, Patch, etc. all are roughly comparable.

When schools went virtual, the makers of the CogAT test would not allow it to be given online so MCPS had no choice but to cancel it that year. Afterward, they decided to extend that pause to 3 years so they can evaluate whether it was necessary. These days similar tests like SATs have fallen in disfavor with many colleges since they don't provide any new information aside from who took the expensive prep course to improve their scores.

*Shrug* I'm not the one trying to get into a good college, but if you think it's good for your kid(s), okay by me.

These tests don't really tell us anything we didn't already know but act as a gatekeeper for less affluent schools where kids don't typically take CogAT prep classes

And you think parents aren’t prepping for MAP now instead? Getting rid of COGAT a mistake.

Exactly! Also, studying/prepping for MAP is way easier than cogat, especially for the super rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have heard that this program is very rigorous. How does it help students to get good college?
Are the magnet courses more weighted than non magnet?

Unclear if these programs help students get into a "good" college. My kid is a senior now and I think I like his odds better if he was at our home school. Very happy with the program. Got to take a lot of amazing classes and had a great peer group. Its definitely feels like a down side now competing with other magnet kids for college spots. Not sure if college admissions officers are familiar with the magnet programs to know that there is a large peer group of highly qualified students or not.

Magnet courses are weighed same as honors and AP classes. Taking Magnet Pre-calc (functions) gives the same credit as Honors Geometry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both the Poolesville and Blair SMACs are HS choice Magnet programs. Both offer classes that are not offered in other HS curriculum (especially advanced math). Both are non-lottery applications. However, both no longer use a Nationally-recognized test to qualify applicants, since MAP is only an indicator of "grade-level" progress and the course offerings are somewhat static, so it's not really a G-T program per-se, although most G-T kids are "grade-level" advanced, so there is significant overlap.

A factor that some college admissions boards may take note of are the national school rankings. College admissions boards don't normally take the time to examine each HS individually, so will rely upon past performance of students they received as well as well-known national rankings as indicators of success. For the latter, US News is probably the most widely-known national school ranking system, however, GreatSchools, Niche, Patch, etc. all are roughly comparable.

When schools went virtual, the makers of the CogAT test would not allow it to be given online so MCPS had no choice but to cancel it that year. Afterward, they decided to extend that pause to 3 years so they can evaluate whether it was necessary. These days similar tests like SATs have fallen in disfavor with many colleges since they don't provide any new information aside from who took the expensive prep course to improve their scores.

*Shrug* I'm not the one trying to get into a good college, but if you think it's good for your kid(s), okay by me.

These tests don't really tell us anything we didn't already know but act as a gatekeeper for less affluent schools where kids don't typically take CogAT prep classes

And you think parents aren’t prepping for MAP now instead? Getting rid of COGAT a mistake.

Exactly! Also, studying/prepping for MAP is way easier than cogat, especially for the super rich.

Not really I mean learning a ton of math is harder than learning the test format. Also, my sense is the CogAT was more heavily weighted and mostly just kept out poor kids who were talented but didn't prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard that this program is very rigorous. How does it help students to get good college?
Are the magnet courses more weighted than non magnet?

Unclear if these programs help students get into a "good" college. My kid is a senior now and I think I like his odds better if he was at our home school. Very happy with the program. Got to take a lot of amazing classes and had a great peer group. Its definitely feels like a down side now competing with other magnet kids for college spots. Not sure if college admissions officers are familiar with the magnet programs to know that there is a large peer group of highly qualified students or not.

Magnet courses are weighed same as honors and AP classes. Taking Magnet Pre-calc (functions) gives the same credit as Honors Geometry.

All I know is the admission stats for Blair and RMIB are much better than any other MCPS HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both the Poolesville and Blair SMACs are HS choice Magnet programs. Both offer classes that are not offered in other HS curriculum (especially advanced math). Both are non-lottery applications. However, both no longer use a Nationally-recognized test to qualify applicants, since MAP is only an indicator of "grade-level" progress and the course offerings are somewhat static, so it's not really a G-T program per-se, although most G-T kids are "grade-level" advanced, so there is significant overlap.

A factor that some college admissions boards may take note of are the national school rankings. College admissions boards don't normally take the time to examine each HS individually, so will rely upon past performance of students they received as well as well-known national rankings as indicators of success. For the latter, US News is probably the most widely-known national school ranking system, however, GreatSchools, Niche, Patch, etc. all are roughly comparable.

When schools went virtual, the makers of the CogAT test would not allow it to be given online so MCPS had no choice but to cancel it that year. Afterward, they decided to extend that pause to 3 years so they can evaluate whether it was necessary. These days similar tests like SATs have fallen in disfavor with many colleges since they don't provide any new information aside from who took the expensive prep course to improve their scores.

*Shrug* I'm not the one trying to get into a good college, but if you think it's good for your kid(s), okay by me.

These tests don't really tell us anything we didn't already know but act as a gatekeeper for less affluent schools where kids don't typically take CogAT prep classes

And you think parents aren’t prepping for MAP now instead? Getting rid of COGAT a mistake.

Exactly! Also, studying/prepping for MAP is way easier than cogat, especially for the super rich.

Not really I mean learning a ton of math is harder than learning the test format. Also, my sense is the CogAT was more heavily weighted and mostly just kept out poor kids who were talented but didn't prep.

Some parents really liked the CogAT because it enabled them to more easily game admissions to these programs. Will be interesting to see what the county does when its 3-year moratorium on this comes to an end. My guess ism they've figured out how to achieve similar quality but more equitably so it's gone for good.

[Anonymous]

And where is the data to back up the previous posters claims? If MCPS wanted to do this right they would track the outcomes here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And where is the data to back up the previous posters claims? If MCPS wanted to do this right they would track the outcomes here.

You must be joking. Many of these parents (probably half) couldn't care less about fairness or what's best for kids but simply a means to give their precious child a distinct advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both the Poolesville and Blair SMACs are HS choice Magnet programs. Both offer classes that are not offered in other HS curriculum (especially advanced math). Both are non-lottery applications. However, both no longer use a Nationally-recognized test to qualify applicants, since MAP is only an indicator of "grade-level" progress and the course offerings are somewhat static, so it's not really a G-T program per-se, although most G-T kids are "grade-level" advanced, so there is significant overlap.

A factor that some college admissions boards may take note of are the national school rankings. College admissions boards don't normally take the time to examine each HS individually, so will rely upon past performance of students they received as well as well-known national rankings as indicators of success. For the latter, US News is probably the most widely-known national school ranking system, however, GreatSchools, Niche, Patch, etc. all are roughly comparable.

When schools went virtual, the makers of the CogAT test would not allow it to be given online so MCPS had no choice but to cancel it that year. Afterward, they decided to extend that pause to 3 years so they can evaluate whether it was necessary. These days similar tests like SATs have fallen in disfavor with many colleges since they don't provide any new information aside from who took the expensive prep course to improve their scores.

*Shrug* I'm not the one trying to get into a good college, but if you think it's good for your kid(s), okay by me.

These tests don't really tell us anything we didn't already know but act as a gatekeeper for less affluent schools where kids don't typically take CogAT prep classes

And you think parents aren’t prepping for MAP now instead? Getting rid of COGAT a mistake.

Exactly! Also, studying/prepping for MAP is way easier than cogat, especially for the super rich.

Not really I mean learning a ton of math is harder than learning the test format. Also, my sense is the CogAT was more heavily weighted and mostly just kept out poor kids who were talented but didn't prep.

Other way around hun, but it's a good attempt to fool everyone.

Although the Verbal portion might somewhat favor kids who's parents speak English well or prep their kids, the Quantitative and Non-Verbal Battery were designed to help balance out kids who might not have access to tutoring and prep resources. That would be easy to determine by a CogAT screener (ex. a B profile, with verbal as the outlyer).

If anything, I think by dropping CogAT and adopting MAP, MCPS royally screwed kids with fewer access to resources, since MAP favors the preppers! Such an irony this happened under McKnight's watch!

[Anonymous]

If memory serves, didn't MCPS also themselves claim in recent litigation that local CogAT norming justified why they dropped Asian students from the Middle School Magnet?

"locally normed Cognitive Abilities Test (CogAT) scores so that students’ scores were only compared to students from elementary schools with similar levels of poverty"

https://www.naacpldf.org/press-release/civil-rights-groups-file-amicus-brief-in-support-of-dismissing-montgomery-county-md-magnet-school-admissions-case/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In terms of pure Magnet program ranking, Poolesville is #58 in Magnet Rankings whereas Blair was #173. Compare that to TJ in Virginia which is #1.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools...ankings/magnet-school-rankings

The rankings you are referencing evaluate the entire High School, not the programs in isolation based on the school's overall average on standardized tests. Blair has 3200 students and a 400 person magnet program. When it ever competes with Poolesville or TJ, #1 on that silly list, it most often comes out on top. Blair's program has a higher percentage of NMSF, a higher SAT average, wins more math and science competitions, and includes members of the US math and science olympiad.

You can easily pick out the emotion ("envy", "silly"), versus posting hard data. There are several claims made here without citations? I'm also dubious about anyone saying these are examples of Blair HS achievements, given the Magnet program pulls 400 students from across all of DCC? A few months back someone posted a claim that Blair scored higher on SATs, but that claim turned out to be false. It referenced an old SAT report and the number picked was only for "white males", which sort of tells you everything about the person who posted the information.

Poolesville, on the other hand, is an academically stronger school overall. The data supports this statement. 84.8% of it's students are college-ready (versus Blair's 62.9%), with a substantially lower dropout rate (≤5.0% compared to Blair's 8.8%).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04152.pdf

DP. You're a clueless idiot. Blair's program has higher percentages of NMSF than any school in the county, has higher SAT average (around 1565), and produces more math and science scholars than any schools in the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regeneron_Science_Talent_Search

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both the Poolesville and Blair SMACs are HS choice Magnet programs. Both offer classes that are not offered in other HS curriculum (especially advanced math). Both are non-lottery applications. However, both no longer use a Nationally-recognized test to qualify applicants, since MAP is only an indicator of "grade-level" progress and the course offerings are somewhat static, so it's not really a G-T program per-se, although most G-T kids are "grade-level" advanced, so there is significant overlap.

A factor that some college admissions boards may take note of are the national school rankings. College admissions boards don't normally take the time to examine each HS individually, so will rely upon past performance of students they received as well as well-known national rankings as indicators of success. For the latter, US News is probably the most widely-known national school ranking system, however, GreatSchools, Niche, Patch, etc. all are roughly comparable.

Outside of the Magnet programs, of the two schools, Poolesville is #248 in National Rankings and 4th in the State of Maryland, whereas Blair is #1,467 nationally and 34th within Maryland.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/maryland/districts/montgomery-county-public-schools/poolesville-high-school-9143
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/maryland/districts/montgomery-county-public-schools/montgomery-blair-high-school-9141

Blair's low ranking is likely due to the fact that if you removed the SMACs program from Blair, it does not stand up well as a serious academic school. Only 62.9% of it's students are "college ready" (even with SMACs).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf

In terms of pure Magnet program ranking, Poolesville is #58 in Magnet Rankings whereas Blair was #173. Compare that to TJ in Virginia which is #1.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings/magnet-school-rankings

My understanding is some colleges first use the SAT (or similar) to somewhat mechanically establish cut off scores, then grades, to establish groups, then will look at essays, coursework and extracurruculars of the student to find differentiators. Other colleges look wholistically at each application at the same time, but I question how many applications they have and how thoroughly they review those applications? Either way, SAT and other standardized test scores, grades, academic coursework all form an important part of every college application, but for non-straight-A SAT 1500+ students, I would suggest that the real differentiators are what the kids are doing outside of the school and what they write on their individual essays. Colleges understand that HS can only offer vanilla and chocolate ice cream. If the kid is into tutti-fruitty, the only way that will shine is through what's done outside of schoolwork.

Blair parents and teachers will claim their courses are super difficult, and Poolesville is not as good. I would argue, if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound? As you read responses from the very vigorous pro-Blair crowd on DCUMS, see if they are only non-opinionated facts backed up by data within cited articles.

I think the reason for this is they are living in the past, from achievements made that are not theirs, and are in overall denial that the Magnet programs slid into the gutter under the current board, MCPS administration, and AEI office. I believe the only way to fix this is to vote them out or fire them all, since they seem to be entrenched in their positions.

My God! How long have been waiting to show your Blair envy? The OP asked about the Poolesville SMACS but you just posted a tirade about Blair.
Blair envy is strong with you.

lol It seems to me the only thing it shows is Poolesville envy?

No, it's a case of Blair envy. The OP asked about Poolesville but the poster (the very first answer to OP question) posted some rant about Blair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both the Poolesville and Blair SMACs are HS choice Magnet programs. Both offer classes that are not offered in other HS curriculum (especially advanced math). Both are non-lottery applications. However, both no longer use a Nationally-recognized test to qualify applicants, since MAP is only an indicator of "grade-level" progress and the course offerings are somewhat static, so it's not really a G-T program per-se, although most G-T kids are "grade-level" advanced, so there is significant overlap.

A factor that some college admissions boards may take note of are the national school rankings. College admissions boards don't normally take the time to examine each HS individually, so will rely upon past performance of students they received as well as well-known national rankings as indicators of success. For the latter, US News is probably the most widely-known national school ranking system, however, GreatSchools, Niche, Patch, etc. all are roughly comparable.

Outside of the Magnet programs, of the two schools, Poolesville is #248 in National Rankings and 4th in the State of Maryland, whereas Blair is #1,467 nationally and 34th within Maryland.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/maryland/districts/montgomery-county-public-schools/poolesville-high-school-9143
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/maryland/districts/montgomery-county-public-schools/montgomery-blair-high-school-9141

Blair's low ranking is likely due to the fact that if you removed the SMACs program from Blair, it does not stand up well as a serious academic school. Only 62.9% of it's students are "college ready" (even with SMACs).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf

In terms of pure Magnet program ranking, Poolesville is #58 in Magnet Rankings whereas Blair was #173. Compare that to TJ in Virginia which is #1.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings/magnet-school-rankings

My understanding is some colleges first use the SAT (or similar) to somewhat mechanically establish cut off scores, then grades, to establish groups, then will look at essays, coursework and extracurruculars of the student to find differentiators. Other colleges look wholistically at each application at the same time, but I question how many applications they have and how thoroughly they review those applications? Either way, SAT and other standardized test scores, grades, academic coursework all form an important part of every college application, but for non-straight-A SAT 1500+ students, I would suggest that the real differentiators are what the kids are doing outside of the school and what they write on their individual essays. Colleges understand that HS can only offer vanilla and chocolate ice cream. If the kid is into tutti-fruitty, the only way that will shine is through what's done outside of schoolwork.

Blair parents and teachers will claim their courses are super difficult, and Poolesville is not as good. I would argue, if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound? As you read responses from the very vigorous pro-Blair crowd on DCUMS, see if they are only non-opinionated facts backed up by data within cited articles.

I think the reason for this is they are living in the past, from achievements made that are not theirs, and are in overall denial that the Magnet programs slid into the gutter under the current board, MCPS administration, and AEI office. I believe the only way to fix this is to vote them out or fire them all, since they seem to be entrenched in their positions.

Wow, there are so many judgments in here, where to begin debunking?

I'll start with the test-- clearly this poster is new to the magnets because for years they had their own test, not a "nationally recognized test." This was in the old "glory" days that people here mistakenly deufy when they propose the magnets are "watered down " or other such nonsense. I had a kid in the program then and also later with cogat. All those tests can be prepped for, and the program is about opportunity and growth, not just math scores. Today's admissions are fine.

Secondly, Blair is a great school. Yes, I am a former parent, but I was so impressed with school admin and student body. They perform lower because they have a greater percentage of low income kids who have not had tge enrichment access that students of middle and upper income do. It has excellent teachers and students earning entry to top colleges from magnet, cap and regular Blair.
I don't know why the one upmanship here.

In terms of magnet programs, they are all great. I'd say from parent feedback here and our own experience, Blair may have some better teachers. One of the phs magnet teachers student taught at Blair and was not a good teacher. Great credits, nice person, not a good teacher. I know all the top schools recognize Blair magnet, so usnews ranking is unnecessary. I'm assuming they would know Poolesville as well. They're not competing against each other!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both the Poolesville and Blair SMACs are HS choice Magnet programs. Both offer classes that are not offered in other HS curriculum (especially advanced math). Both are non-lottery applications. However, both no longer use a Nationally-recognized test to qualify applicants, since MAP is only an indicator of "grade-level" progress and the course offerings are somewhat static, so it's not really a G-T program per-se, although most G-T kids are "grade-level" advanced, so there is significant overlap.

A factor that some college admissions boards may take note of are the national school rankings. College admissions boards don't normally take the time to examine each HS individually, so will rely upon past performance of students they received as well as well-known national rankings as indicators of success. For the latter, US News is probably the most widely-known national school ranking system, however, GreatSchools, Niche, Patch, etc. all are roughly comparable.

When schools went virtual, the makers of the CogAT test would not allow it to be given online so MCPS had no choice but to cancel it that year. Afterward, they decided to extend that pause to 3 years so they can evaluate whether it was necessary. These days similar tests like SATs have fallen in disfavor with many colleges since they don't provide any new information aside from who took the expensive prep course to improve their scores.

*Shrug* I'm not the one trying to get into a good college, but if you think it's good for your kid(s), okay by me.

These tests don't really tell us anything we didn't already know but act as a gatekeeper for less affluent schools where kids don't typically take CogAT prep classes

And you think parents aren’t prepping for MAP now instead? Getting rid of COGAT a mistake.

Exactly! Also, studying/prepping for MAP is way easier than cogat, especially for the super rich.

Not really I mean learning a ton of math is harder than learning the test format. Also, my sense is the CogAT was more heavily weighted and mostly just kept out poor kids who were talented but didn't prep.

Other way around hun, but it's a good attempt to fool everyone.

Although the Verbal portion might somewhat favor kids who's parents speak English well or prep their kids, the Quantitative and Non-Verbal Battery were designed to help balance out kids who might not have access to tutoring and prep resources. That would be easy to determine by a CogAT screener (ex. a B profile, with verbal as the outlyer).

If anything, I think by dropping CogAT and adopting MAP, MCPS royally screwed kids with fewer access to resources, since MAP favors the preppers! Such an irony this happened under McKnight's watch!

Nope. Both (quant and nv) on coager are coachable. Verbal too. I think it even still had analogies, the most coachable of old sat sections. Raven matrices is definitely coachable. It's all ripe for test prep.

[Anonymous]

Cogat, not coager!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard that this program is very rigorous. How does it help students to get good college?
Are the magnet courses more weighted than non magnet?

Unclear if these programs help students get into a "good" college. My kid is a senior now and I think I like his odds better if he was at our home school. Very happy with the program. Got to take a lot of amazing classes and had a great peer group. Its definitely feels like a down side now competing with other magnet kids for college spots. Not sure if college admissions officers are familiar with the magnet programs to know that there is a large peer group of highly qualified students or not.

Magnet courses are weighed same as honors and AP classes. Taking Magnet Pre-calc (functions) gives the same credit as Honors Geometry.

Mine got into 3 Ivy/T10 from Blair. They know the program. You can tell from admit numbers, especially considering far fewer legacies than at W schools. My kid and many fellow admits had no legacy status. Many kids either chose umd or don't even apply to top colleges for financial reasons. We qualified for FA.