Are foreign languages the hardest classes in MS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So far my DS's FL 1AB class is the only one he's getting a B in (6th grade, but he's in AMP7+ for math, is >97th percentile on both MAPs etc - in summary, a very good student). Maybe it's him, but I actually find the rubric to be kind of harsh. Like he got a C on a quiz where he got "Exceeds expectations" for 1 rubric, and "Meets expectations" for 2 rubrics ("Strong" for 1 and "Minimal" for 1). How is that a C and not a B?

Anyway, I don't want to whine and it's not like I've discussed this with the teacher, I just told him to talk to her to make sure he understands what he's getting wrong. Is the idea that they're harsh in 1AB so the kids get used to working hard, or is this simply his weakest subject? (Which is OK, but I still want him to try to improve.) He's finding all his other classes super easy for now.

No. Ds sails through foreign language. Honors maths are more difficult. Some students also take high school level tech credit, etc. Is foreign language more difficult than the other average level classes? Sure. But not the most difficult middle school courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I agree with the lack of FL study skills for students entering MS. It's very different from their previous classes. Son actually has a tiny bit of FL learning experience with my native language, but much less formal than what he's doing now for Spanish (and upgraded lol.)

But... I was hoping the teacher would go more over study skills and such? Or maybe they just need to get used to it and learn from their mistakes? I don't know Spanish and I considered a tutor, but kiddo is already feeling like I'm stressing him out about it and there's so much going on right now (many changes in 6th grade) that I don't want to insist on this at the moment.

I really wish they had a textbook, though.

I have found that study skills are not taught in MCPS. Kids are supposed to figure it out on their own or rely on outside assistance.

[Anonymous]

I actually had a FL tutor for my kid in the summer after 5th grade, before he began 6th grade. I had a friend who is FL teacher in MCPS and she had confided that even in Spanish 1A/B and Spanish 2A/B, they are never able to complete the full syllabus. So the tutor covered a whole quarter worth of syllabus but did a deep dive during summer.

Spanish 1 and 2 are super easy, so it was very easy to go indepth with a tutor and really build a superb vocabulary for my kid. Anyhow, my kid went all the way to Spanish AP in 10th grade, and was always working on advance stuff because of the support outside the school. He is quite fluent in Spanish due to the 5 years in school and the 3 years of tutoring support in MS. He does not get too much chance to practice the language now and unfortunately he did not take FL in college. However, he listens to a lot of Spanish music and watches programs in Spanish, so who knows?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I actually had a FL tutor for my kid in the summer after 5th grade, before he began 6th grade. I had a friend who is FL teacher in MCPS and she had confided that even in Spanish 1A/B and Spanish 2A/B, they are never able to complete the full syllabus. So the tutor covered a whole quarter worth of syllabus but did a deep dive during summer.

Spanish 1 and 2 are super easy, so it was very easy to go indepth with a tutor and really build a superb vocabulary for my kid. Anyhow, my kid went all the way to Spanish AP in 10th grade, and was always working on advance stuff because of the support outside the school. He is quite fluent in Spanish due to the 5 years in school and the 3 years of tutoring support in MS. He does not get too much chance to practice the language now and unfortunately he did not take FL in college. However, he listens to a lot of Spanish music and watches programs in Spanish, so who knows?

OP here. This is pretty funny - so it was very easy for your kid because you hired a tutor before they even started 6th grade and they always had support outside of school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So far my DS's FL 1AB class is the only one he's getting a B in (6th grade, but he's in AMP7+ for math, is >97th percentile on both MAPs etc - in summary, a very good student). Maybe it's him, but I actually find the rubric to be kind of harsh. Like he got a C on a quiz where he got "Exceeds expectations" for 1 rubric, and "Meets expectations" for 2 rubrics ("Strong" for 1 and "Minimal" for 1). How is that a C and not a B?

Anyway, I don't want to whine and it's not like I've discussed this with the teacher, I just told him to talk to her to make sure he understands what he's getting wrong. Is the idea that they're harsh in 1AB so the kids get used to working hard, or is this simply his weakest subject? (Which is OK, but I still want him to try to improve.) He's finding all his other classes super easy for now.

No. Ds sails through foreign language. Honors maths are more difficult. Some students also take high school level tech credit, etc. Is foreign language more difficult than the other average level classes? Sure. But not the most difficult middle school courses.

That’s going to vary from kid to kid. True for some but not for others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The foreign language grading rubrics are calibrated to a B. You have to go over and above the requirements of the assignment to get an A. Not every teacher applies the rubric in the same way, but that is what it says.

That was kind of my impression as well from seeing the rubric for the one quiz*. But can you explain where it says this? I take it this is different from other classes? I'm totally OK with high standards as long as they're clear. I'm just not sure they should start so rough with Spanish 1, though of course, it may also be because it's AB.... it's still most kids' first experience with a foreign language class.

Also, I'm kind of miffed that they don't have a textbook or something of the like... it seems like he just goes through notes and videos to practice...

*In fact, if you got "Meets expectations- strong" for all components, that would also have been a C.

Each written assignment, speaking assignment comes with a chart rubric like the one you are describing. That is where the information is provided. A lot of the issue with Middle School is that the students do not know how to study. English grammar instruction is hit or miss, so learning and practicing grammar in a foreign language is a much more regimented process. Also vocabulary study is challenging. Some students are also more natural foreign language learners than others. Our MS has eliminated A/B FL for 6th graders.

This is what I came to say too. They don't use textbooks, and kids don't have study skills, so I think OP's kid needs a tutor or a parent to help show how to study.

How do they teach language without a textbook?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had a FL tutor for my kid in the summer after 5th grade, before he began 6th grade. I had a friend who is FL teacher in MCPS and she had confided that even in Spanish 1A/B and Spanish 2A/B, they are never able to complete the full syllabus. So the tutor covered a whole quarter worth of syllabus but did a deep dive during summer.

Spanish 1 and 2 are super easy, so it was very easy to go indepth with a tutor and really build a superb vocabulary for my kid. Anyhow, my kid went all the way to Spanish AP in 10th grade, and was always working on advance stuff because of the support outside the school. He is quite fluent in Spanish due to the 5 years in school and the 3 years of tutoring support in MS. He does not get too much chance to practice the language now and unfortunately he did not take FL in college. However, he listens to a lot of Spanish music and watches programs in Spanish, so who knows?

OP here. This is pretty funny - so it was very easy for your kid because you hired a tutor before they even started 6th grade and they always had support outside of school?

Yes. Do you want me to lie and say that my non-Spanish kid learned Spanish well enough to take Spanish AP and score a 5 in 10th grade, after 5 years of MCPS instruction because we relied on MCPS and the teachers? LOL. Now that is pretty funny. Who would drink the MCPS Kool-aid so blindly? Only someone who got their K-12 education in US.

I put remediation measures in place before the school started because I was made aware that for Spanish 1 and 2, the teachers never cover the full syllabus or everything that is in the textbook. 1 and 2 are the foundation on which the rest of the FL education depends. Every parent was boo-hooing about how Spanish 3 is so hard. Well, duh! There were two wasted years where they did not teach Spanish 1 and 2 correctly. Of course, Spanish 3 will kick the butt of the kids.

Giving credit where it is due - the textbooks that they use is pretty solid (Realidades 1, 2, 3 etc), but if they don't cover the material, then I am not going to let my kid's education be impacted because of inefficiency of people who are not invested in their future.

Hope it helped. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had a FL tutor for my kid in the summer after 5th grade, before he began 6th grade. I had a friend who is FL teacher in MCPS and she had confided that even in Spanish 1A/B and Spanish 2A/B, they are never able to complete the full syllabus. So the tutor covered a whole quarter worth of syllabus but did a deep dive during summer.

Spanish 1 and 2 are super easy, so it was very easy to go indepth with a tutor and really build a superb vocabulary for my kid. Anyhow, my kid went all the way to Spanish AP in 10th grade, and was always working on advance stuff because of the support outside the school. He is quite fluent in Spanish due to the 5 years in school and the 3 years of tutoring support in MS. He does not get too much chance to practice the language now and unfortunately he did not take FL in college. However, he listens to a lot of Spanish music and watches programs in Spanish, so who knows?

OP here. This is pretty funny - so it was very easy for your kid because you hired a tutor before they even started 6th grade and they always had support outside of school?

Yes. Do you want me to lie and say that my non-Spanish kid learned Spanish well enough to take Spanish AP and score a 5 in 10th grade, after 5 years of MCPS instruction because we relied on MCPS and the teachers? LOL. Now that is pretty funny. Who would drink the MCPS Kool-aid so blindly? Only someone who got their K-12 education in US.

I put remediation measures in place before the school started because I was made aware that for Spanish 1 and 2, the teachers never cover the full syllabus or everything that is in the textbook. 1 and 2 are the foundation on which the rest of the FL education depends. Every parent was boo-hooing about how Spanish 3 is so hard. Well, duh! There were two wasted years where they did not teach Spanish 1 and 2 correctly. Of course, Spanish 3 will kick the butt of the kids.

Giving credit where it is due - the textbooks that they use is pretty solid (Realidades 1, 2, 3 etc), but if they don't cover the material, then I am not going to let my kid's education be impacted because of inefficiency of people who are not invested in their future.

Hope it helped. Good luck!

Just wanted to add - I did not just hire a tutor. I hired an experienced and fantastic MCPS HS Spanish teacher to tutor my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had a FL tutor for my kid in the summer after 5th grade, before he began 6th grade. I had a friend who is FL teacher in MCPS and she had confided that even in Spanish 1A/B and Spanish 2A/B, they are never able to complete the full syllabus. So the tutor covered a whole quarter worth of syllabus but did a deep dive during summer.

Spanish 1 and 2 are super easy, so it was very easy to go indepth with a tutor and really build a superb vocabulary for my kid. Anyhow, my kid went all the way to Spanish AP in 10th grade, and was always working on advance stuff because of the support outside the school. He is quite fluent in Spanish due to the 5 years in school and the 3 years of tutoring support in MS. He does not get too much chance to practice the language now and unfortunately he did not take FL in college. However, he listens to a lot of Spanish music and watches programs in Spanish, so who knows?

OP here. This is pretty funny - so it was very easy for your kid because you hired a tutor before they even started 6th grade and they always had support outside of school?

Yes. Do you want me to lie and say that my non-Spanish kid learned Spanish well enough to take Spanish AP and score a 5 in 10th grade, after 5 years of MCPS instruction because we relied on MCPS and the teachers? LOL. Now that is pretty funny. Who would drink the MCPS Kool-aid so blindly? Only someone who got their K-12 education in US.

I put remediation measures in place before the school started because I was made aware that for Spanish 1 and 2, the teachers never cover the full syllabus or everything that is in the textbook. 1 and 2 are the foundation on which the rest of the FL education depends. Every parent was boo-hooing about how Spanish 3 is so hard. Well, duh! There were two wasted years where they did not teach Spanish 1 and 2 correctly. Of course, Spanish 3 will kick the butt of the kids.

Giving credit where it is due - the textbooks that they use is pretty solid (Realidades 1, 2, 3 etc), but if they don't cover the material, then I am not going to let my kid's education be impacted because of inefficiency of people who are not invested in their future.

Hope it helped. Good luck!

Before everyone jumps on this poster, I just want to say that they have the right idea: not relying on a public school, however great its reputation might be, to push their child to achieve to a high level. That is particularly true for foreign languages and math. My kids' native language is French, which helps them a little with learning their chosen languages in school (Spanish for one, Latin for the other). Equally importantly, it's the grammatical work they've had drilled into them at their French language school on weekends that makes them understand how to tackle grammar and vocabulary for another language. Math is the same: my senior needs tutoring for his AP Calc BC class, because it's extremely challenging.

So whether it's tutoring, or parent instruction, or immersion during the summer, or something else, most kids will need outside help for difficult subjects.

[Anonymous]

The FL teachers are weak, too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The FL teachers are weak, too

Everything from Florida is weak!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So far my DS's FL 1AB class is the only one he's getting a B in (6th grade, but he's in AMP7+ for math, is >97th percentile on both MAPs etc - in summary, a very good student). Maybe it's him, but I actually find the rubric to be kind of harsh. Like he got a C on a quiz where he got "Exceeds expectations" for 1 rubric, and "Meets expectations" for 2 rubrics ("Strong" for 1 and "Minimal" for 1). How is that a C and not a B?

Anyway, I don't want to whine and it's not like I've discussed this with the teacher, I just told him to talk to her to make sure he understands what he's getting wrong. Is the idea that they're harsh in 1AB so the kids get used to working hard, or is this simply his weakest subject? (Which is OK, but I still want him to try to improve.) He's finding all his other classes super easy for now.

It is one of the more challenging classes in MS. I think it requires new study skills that most kids haven't encountered previously. The good news is they can retake 1AB in 7th and not lose a beat. This will allow them to develop their skills and still have a solid foundation in Spanish before moving forward to 2AB which is actually harder than 1AB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually had a FL tutor for my kid in the summer after 5th grade, before he began 6th grade. I had a friend who is FL teacher in MCPS and she had confided that even in Spanish 1A/B and Spanish 2A/B, they are never able to complete the full syllabus. So the tutor covered a whole quarter worth of syllabus but did a deep dive during summer.

Spanish 1 and 2 are super easy, so it was very easy to go indepth with a tutor and really build a superb vocabulary for my kid. Anyhow, my kid went all the way to Spanish AP in 10th grade, and was always working on advance stuff because of the support outside the school. He is quite fluent in Spanish due to the 5 years in school and the 3 years of tutoring support in MS. He does not get too much chance to practice the language now and unfortunately he did not take FL in college. However, he listens to a lot of Spanish music and watches programs in Spanish, so who knows?

OP here. This is pretty funny - so it was very easy for your kid because you hired a tutor before they even started 6th grade and they always had support outside of school?

Yes. Do you want me to lie and say that my non-Spanish kid learned Spanish well enough to take Spanish AP and score a 5 in 10th grade, after 5 years of MCPS instruction because we relied on MCPS and the teachers? LOL. Now that is pretty funny. Who would drink the MCPS Kool-aid so blindly? Only someone who got their K-12 education in US.

I put remediation measures in place before the school started because I was made aware that for Spanish 1 and 2, the teachers never cover the full syllabus or everything that is in the textbook. 1 and 2 are the foundation on which the rest of the FL education depends. Every parent was boo-hooing about how Spanish 3 is so hard. Well, duh! There were two wasted years where they did not teach Spanish 1 and 2 correctly. Of course, Spanish 3 will kick the butt of the kids.

Giving credit where it is due - the textbooks that they use is pretty solid (Realidades 1, 2, 3 etc), but if they don't cover the material, then I am not going to let my kid's education be impacted because of inefficiency of people who are not invested in their future.

Hope it helped. Good luck!

Just wanted to add - I did not just hire a tutor. I hired an experienced and fantastic MCPS HS Spanish teacher to tutor my kid.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this poo-pooing of the American education system which included, "the textbooks...is pretty solid." Never change, pp. 😆

[Anonymous]

OP, buy your kid a textbook or some workbooks.

[Anonymous]

I would expect Spanish A/B in 6th to be very challenging. That's what they told us when we registered. My DS who is a very strong student took Spanish A in 6th and is now in Spanish B in 7th, which is a really good option at my MS. The work is still challenging but he's doing well.