Feds vs private sector- federal management is the hardest

[Anonymous]

I spent 16 years as a federal supervisor. It was a challenge. It was hard to reward/retain great employees and near impossible to get rid of bad ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand government employees. I always hear it’s so hard to get employed by the government, but 99% of the time I interact with employees at the DMV or Medicaid or customer service lines I’m struck by how slow they are. Who is hiring these people?

Your DMV and Medicaid customer service are not run by the federal government, which is the topic of this thread. They are run by your state government. In the case of Medicaid, the call center you’re reaching is probably staffed by employees of a private contractor.

Federal government, state government. Same issues. This is still the government.

Got it. And Walmart greeters are the same as Corporate workers. Still private sector.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A non-supervisory GS-15 in the Fed is the holy grail of positions.

But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.

We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.

And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?

I don't know how you tolerate it. I was a non-sup GS-15 with special pay scale. The unicorn. But I couldn't stand being surrounded by the mediocrity you describe. So I'm headed back to the private sector, back into a leadership position where I know I'll thrive and get paid more than twice as much.

all this. I was a GS15 with cyber pay and it was the worst job I ever had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A non-supervisory GS-15 in the Fed is the holy grail of positions.

But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.

We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.

And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?

I don't know how you tolerate it. I was a non-sup GS-15 with special pay scale. The unicorn. But I couldn't stand being surrounded by the mediocrity you describe. So I'm headed back to the private sector, back into a leadership position where I know I'll thrive and get paid more than twice as much.

all this. I was a GS15 with cyber pay and it was the worst job I ever had.

PP here. You escaped CISA, too? Congrats!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A non-supervisory GS-15 in the Fed is the holy grail of positions.

But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.

We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.

And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?

I don't know how you tolerate it. I was a non-sup GS-15 with special pay scale. The unicorn. But I couldn't stand being surrounded by the mediocrity you describe. So I'm headed back to the private sector, back into a leadership position where I know I'll thrive and get paid more than twice as much.

What's your speciality?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A non-supervisory GS-15 in the Fed is the holy grail of positions.

But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.

We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.

And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?

I don't know how you tolerate it. I was a non-sup GS-15 with special pay scale. The unicorn. But I couldn't stand being surrounded by the mediocrity you describe. So I'm headed back to the private sector, back into a leadership position where I know I'll thrive and get paid more than twice as much.

What's your speciality?

Cyber

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A non-supervisory GS-15 in the Fed is the holy grail of positions.

But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.

We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.

And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?

In the private sector we have software that allows us to see where people are logging in from…That person in Florida could be in Bulgaria. It’s a tax issue and probably a security issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I spent 16 years as a federal supervisor. It was a challenge. It was hard to reward/retain great employees and near impossible to get rid of bad ones.

This is the main reason it’s “hard.” There is underpay, tons of incapable freeloaders, and bad management everywhere.

However I wouldn’t compare the claim that it’s “harder” than a private sector management job. Those are very hard I’d imagine but for the stress of P&L, less job security, board politics, somewhat similar hiring & laying off decisions, need for relocation, etc. reasons.

Quite different.

[Anonymous]

I work in a very high performing federal group and I still agree fed managers have it pretty tough. They aren’t paid more, except maybe through pretty small bonuses. This is just a part of the problem with the compressed GS pay scale. Private sector has more appropriate compensation for the level of responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A non-supervisory GS-15 in the Fed is the holy grail of positions.

But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.

We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.

And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?

I don't know how you tolerate it. I was a non-sup GS-15 with special pay scale. The unicorn. But I couldn't stand being surrounded by the mediocrity you describe. So I'm headed back to the private sector, back into a leadership position where I know I'll thrive and get paid more than twice as much.

I am a non sup GS 15 and if i head back to the private sector I will also get paid twice as much but have 4 times as much work and 6 times as much stress. Mediocrity has its benefits

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spent 16 years as a federal supervisor. It was a challenge. It was hard to reward/retain great employees and near impossible to get rid of bad ones.

This is the main reason it’s “hard.” There is underpay, tons of incapable freeloaders, and bad management everywhere.

However I wouldn’t compare the claim that it’s “harder” than a private sector management job. Those are very hard I’d imagine but for the stress of P&L, less job security, board politics, somewhat similar hiring & laying off decisions, need for relocation, etc. reasons.

Quite different.

It sounds like you haven't done both. You're right that both can be challenging and they exist with different environmental factors, but overall in my experience, it is far more difficult to be a successful manager in the government.

[Anonymous]

Staffing is by far the biggest issue. Also lack of viable non managerial career growth. You cannot specialize in a niche subject - something the federal government desperately needs - and grow. And so people who are excellent SMEd become horrific managers. And people also know career growth is crap and salary is not tied to performance. So yep

[Anonymous]

Yes OP. The first line sup jobs are really hard in govt. Upper managers screw you, staff don't list to you (and there's not much you can do about it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A non-supervisory GS-15 in the Fed is the holy grail of positions.

But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.

We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.

And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?

I don't know how you tolerate it. I was a non-sup GS-15 with special pay scale. The unicorn. But I couldn't stand being surrounded by the mediocrity you describe. So I'm headed back to the private sector, back into a leadership position where I know I'll thrive and get paid more than twice as much.

I am a non sup GS 15 and if i head back to the private sector I will also get paid twice as much but have 4 times as much work and 6 times as much stress. Mediocrity has its benefits

I agree about the stress but not sure about the work. Litigation is a bear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A non-supervisory GS-15 in the Fed is the holy grail of positions.

But after nearly 40 years in the Fed, OP is absolutely right. Non-sups generally have it gravy (that's where I fall), but Supervisors have their hands tied behind their backs because they can't do anything about poor performers. ER will pay you lip service, "put them on a PIP", but to outright fire someone, they have to get caught looking at porn on their work computer, come to work repeatedly under the influence of something, and bring a loaded gun to the workplace. Those are the only examples I've seen.

We've had employees threaten supervisors, stalk supervisors, get into physical fights with coworkers, literally fall asleep at their desk repeatedly, be working a second job on the job, sit in the lobby for hours watching the TV, you name it. We've just either shipped them off to another office, or hoped they'd retire as soon as they were eligible. Supervisors are terrified of officially-filed grievances, which are a nightmare and upper management gives little support and just wants them settled.

And now, post-pandemic, you can't even get staff to come into the office. Where I am it's 90% fully remote. We have a people who have moved to locations like Florida, but keep their house in the DMV and rent it out, so they can still get the DMV pay. Or just never change their address, because who is going to know?

Being a federal employee ( non-supervisory) for 10 years, I agree with most of it. But our new boss managed to fire one of our coworkers for literally minor issues, which blown everybody away. PIP process and firing process took some time, but it was done. People say, that you cannot fire federal employee, well that is not true. I feel like my federal position is not safe.