Swanson or Williamsburg

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swanson is right next to a small commercial district (Westover). Very different feel than Williamsburg which is more car-centric and suburban. Most of Swanson kids are walkers (not all) and there a big culture of after school in-person socializing in and around Westover. That could be a pro or con depending on your views.

Swanson is no longer over enrolled. But the building is older and smaller, as mentioned.

Swanson just got a new principal, who is a returning principal who many people liked.

Williamsburg is less socio-economically diverse than Swanson.

Williamsburg all goes to Yorktown. Swanson splits to W-L and Yorktown.

Academically, same difference.

A good portion of WMS Students walk up to the Harrison Shopping Center similar to how Swanson students walk over to Westover. It’s a longer walk but they do get that experience. WMS kids also hang out at the Yorktown fields after school. So saying it’s a car centric environment might be true for the morning, but not the afternoon.

I guess. It's a mile away and a big Yorktown hangout too. I wouldn't let my 6th grader at least do that on any kind of regular basis.

I wish more parents felt that way. Harrison shopping center gets overrun with rowdy WMS kids around 2:45/3:00 during the school year.

I would say both WMS and Swanson have large walking populations. Many parents drop off in the mornings at both schools because it’s really early and can be on the way to work for the parent (I know that when my most recent kid was there I’d drop them off on my way in most mornings but they’d walk home). I’d say the biggest contingency of kids going to lee-Harrison after school are the 6th graders because it’s a new freedom. Then it starts to die off and by 8th grade most kids only go a few times during the year. And in Westover like at lee-Harrison the store owners have instituted rules such as no backpacks allowed in the Italian store or no groups larger than 4 kids at the Harris Teeter. But these business certainly take their $$ regardless.

[Anonymous]

Also as an FYI, the walk zone expands for middle school. In elementary you get a bus if more than 1 mile away, for middle school it’s 1.5 miles so many more walkers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do these schools compare to the other middles in APS? There are 6 of them, right?

Dorothy Hamm MS has the best facilities in Arlington since it’s a brand new middle school. It’s made up of students that formerly went to Swanson and Williamsburg. It is still too new to compare to the other 5 middle schools, but the principal is popular and the school is centered around a walkable community with a small town feel like Swanson. The shops at Cherrydale and Lee Hts are nearby. It is also very socio-economically and culturally diverse. It splits between W-L and Yorktown. TJ was mentioned earlier and it is the only middle school with the IB program. It is generally well regarded, and splits between all three Arlington high schools.

TJ family here. I would clarify that TJ does not split to all three high schools by assigned boundaries. It does split between WL and Wakefield. When there are transfers available into to TJ from the other middle school attendance zones, you may get a few students who are districted to Yorktown. But it isn't like TJ itself is divided into 3 different high school zones. If I'm mistaken, it's a very very small part that goes to Yorktown.

Swanson and Hamm are very similar to each other in regard to student demographics - and overall more diverse than Williamsburg (70% white) - but both are still over 50% White v. Gunston, TJ and Kenmore which range from 28-30% White. A bit more Asian at Hamm v. Swanson and more significantly more Hispanic at the other 3 schools.
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Civil-Rights-Table-1-2021-11-08.pdf

as far as Hamm being too new to compare, I think it's pretty safe to say it is on par with Williamsburg and Swanson - particularly given that's where its students came from. The 3 north MS are all pretty similar with the noted exception of Williamsburg. The other 3 central and southern MS are also rather similar to each other - and a different feel from their farther north counterparts. Kenmore has a strong arts program that many families speak highly of; TJ, as mentioned, has the IB program which all students participate in; Gunston has 3 programs - regular, immersion, and Montessori.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do these schools compare to the other middles in APS? There are 6 of them, right?

Dorothy Hamm MS has the best facilities in Arlington since it’s a brand new middle school. It’s made up of students that formerly went to Swanson and Williamsburg. It is still too new to compare to the other 5 middle schools, but the principal is popular and the school is centered around a walkable community with a small town feel like Swanson. The shops at Cherrydale and Lee Hts are nearby. It is also very socio-economically and culturally diverse. It splits between W-L and Yorktown. TJ was mentioned earlier and it is the only middle school with the IB program. It is generally well regarded, and splits between all three Arlington high schools.

Not really. There are a handful of kids who transfer to TJ for the IB program who then go to Yorktown but most of TJ is zoned to Wakefield except for the students who attended Long Branch ES who are zoned to W-L. In the current 6th grade, I believe around a quarter came from Long Branch. But then there are always some TJ kids who will want to follow IB to W-L. Still, the majority typically go to Wakefield. My kids are Long Branch/TJ/W-L and now in HS. A couple of their LB friends chose to transfer to Wakefield to stay with middle school friends.

I think more are being districted to WL in the changes to address overcrowding at Wakefield.

[Anonymous]

1) why not Hamm?

2) look closely at WL and how they are adding 600 student seats to an already overcrowded campus via office conversions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1) why not Hamm?

2) look closely at WL and how they are adding 600 student seats to an already overcrowded campus via office conversions

W-L’s not overcrowded now and the trailers will disappear. W-L will be close to the size of the larger Fairfax County high schools as the new addition fills up. Wakefield is currently the most overcrowded school. Yorktown was accepting transfers from the W-L zone without preconditions, and that may have been extended to the Wakefield zone. But I’m not sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) why not Hamm?

2) look closely at WL and how they are adding 600 student seats to an already overcrowded campus via office conversions

W-L’s not overcrowded now and the trailers will disappear. W-L will be close to the size of the larger Fairfax County high schools as the new addition fills up. Wakefield is currently the most overcrowded school. Yorktown was accepting transfers from the W-L zone without preconditions, and that may have been extended to the Wakefield zone. But I’m not sure.

W-L will have the POPULATION of a large Fairfax school (2600) in a building built for 2000 students plus the office addition (some small lunch room, etc) on a campus that is a fraction of the size of a Fairfax school.

Yorktown doesn’t take WL transfers, and least not in last 2 years when our neighbor tried.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) why not Hamm?

2) look closely at WL and how they are adding 600 student seats to an already overcrowded campus via office conversions

W-L’s not overcrowded now and the trailers will disappear. W-L will be close to the size of the larger Fairfax County high schools as the new addition fills up. Wakefield is currently the most overcrowded school. Yorktown was accepting transfers from the W-L zone without preconditions, and that may have been extended to the Wakefield zone. But I’m not sure.

W-L will have the POPULATION of a large Fairfax school (2600) in a building built for 2000 students plus the office addition (some small lunch room, etc) on a campus that is a fraction of the size of a Fairfax school.

Yorktown doesn’t take WL transfers, and least not in last 2 years when our neighbor tried.

Arlington citizens have been pushing for the dense urban concept schools for years. The new HB/Heights school in Rosslyn, the W-L addition, Career Center redevelopment, etc.. At least the W-L addition has a planetarium and doesn’t feel like an office building—like the ones in Ballston. I think it blends into the campus nicely and it overlooks the athletic fields. The building itself is very distinctive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) why not Hamm?

2) look closely at WL and how they are adding 600 student seats to an already overcrowded campus via office conversions

W-L’s not overcrowded now and the trailers will disappear. W-L will be close to the size of the larger Fairfax County high schools as the new addition fills up. Wakefield is currently the most overcrowded school. Yorktown was accepting transfers from the W-L zone without preconditions, and that may have been extended to the Wakefield zone. But I’m not sure.

W-L will have the POPULATION of a large Fairfax school (2600) in a building built for 2000 students plus the office addition (some small lunch room, etc) on a campus that is a fraction of the size of a Fairfax school.

Yorktown doesn’t take WL transfers, and least not in last 2 years when our neighbor tried.

Arlington citizens have been pushing for the dense urban concept schools for years. The new HB/Heights school in Rosslyn, the W-L addition, Career Center redevelopment, etc.. At least the W-L addition has a planetarium and doesn’t feel like an office building—like the ones in Ballston. I think it blends into the campus nicely and it overlooks the athletic fields. The building itself is very distinctive.

You mean the planetarium APS keeps wanting to shut down?
That isn't really an addition - it's just a renovation and re-purposing of the old administrative office building which was next to the planetarium.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) why not Hamm?

2) look closely at WL and how they are adding 600 student seats to an already overcrowded campus via office conversions

W-L’s not overcrowded now and the trailers will disappear. W-L will be close to the size of the larger Fairfax County high schools as the new addition fills up. Wakefield is currently the most overcrowded school. Yorktown was accepting transfers from the W-L zone without preconditions, and that may have been extended to the Wakefield zone. But I’m not sure.

W-L will have the POPULATION of a large Fairfax school (2600) in a building built for 2000 students plus the office addition (some small lunch room, etc) on a campus that is a fraction of the size of a Fairfax school.

Yorktown doesn’t take WL transfers, and least not in last 2 years when our neighbor tried.

Arlington citizens have been pushing for the dense urban concept schools for years. The new HB/Heights school in Rosslyn, the W-L addition, Career Center redevelopment, etc.. At least the W-L addition has a planetarium and doesn’t feel like an office building—like the ones in Ballston. I think it blends into the campus nicely and it overlooks the athletic fields. The building itself is very distinctive.

You mean the planetarium APS keeps wanting to shut down?
That isn't really an addition - it's just a renovation and re-purposing of the old administrative office building which was next to the planetarium.

I’ll have to see the W-L addition in person before judging. The whole building was gutted to the steel frame, so it’s not a cheapo renovation of offices. Also, APS just decided to fund the planetarium again. Re. the OP’s question, you really can’t go wrong with either Swanson or Williamsburg. Swanson does have a nice shaded front lawn, which is attractive. Williamsburg has the bigger campus and slightly newer facilities. Swanson is a historic district, so that school can’t grow much larger and the building can never change. A smaller middle school might be ideal for your family.

[Anonymous]

I would go with Swanson. We were very happy there and my DD had some great teachers. With Bridget Loft going back to take over and be the principal again it’s a no-brainer. She runs a tight ship and does a great job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) why not Hamm?

2) look closely at WL and how they are adding 600 student seats to an already overcrowded campus via office conversions

W-L’s not overcrowded now and the trailers will disappear. W-L will be close to the size of the larger Fairfax County high schools as the new addition fills up. Wakefield is currently the most overcrowded school. Yorktown was accepting transfers from the W-L zone without preconditions, and that may have been extended to the Wakefield zone. But I’m not sure.

W-L will have the POPULATION of a large Fairfax school (2600) in a building built for 2000 students plus the office addition (some small lunch room, etc) on a campus that is a fraction of the size of a Fairfax school.

Yorktown doesn’t take WL transfers, and least not in last 2 years when our neighbor tried.

Arlington citizens have been pushing for the dense urban concept schools for years. The new HB/Heights school in Rosslyn, the W-L addition, Career Center redevelopment, etc.. At least the W-L addition has a planetarium and doesn’t feel like an office building—like the ones in Ballston. I think it blends into the campus nicely and it overlooks the athletic fields. The building itself is very distinctive.

That is utter BS. There are zero citizens pushing for dense urban concept schools except county boards who want to save land for their developer buddy/campaign donors. There have active requests for a 4th comprehensive high school for at least 6 or 7 years, with ideas at Kenmore or the VHC site on Carlin Springs Rd, or even Career Center (albeit with a smaller neighborhood high school which is NOT wanted).

The WL addition was simply a stop gap because the students have to go somewhere, and WL had the adjacent office building they could repurpose.

The New HB/Heights urban school was made in to HB precisely because most neighborhood parents/citizens did NOT want their neighborhood middle school in Rosslyn and preferred the suburban style Hamm campus. HB was given the urban location precisely because it was an option school so parents/students would have the right to opt out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) why not Hamm?

2) look closely at WL and how they are adding 600 student seats to an already overcrowded campus via office conversions

W-L’s not overcrowded now and the trailers will disappear. W-L will be close to the size of the larger Fairfax County high schools as the new addition fills up. Wakefield is currently the most overcrowded school. Yorktown was accepting transfers from the W-L zone without preconditions, and that may have been extended to the Wakefield zone. But I’m not sure.

W-L will have the POPULATION of a large Fairfax school (2600) in a building built for 2000 students plus the office addition (some small lunch room, etc) on a campus that is a fraction of the size of a Fairfax school.

Yorktown doesn’t take WL transfers, and least not in last 2 years when our neighbor tried.

Arlington citizens have been pushing for the dense urban concept schools for years. The new HB/Heights school in Rosslyn, the W-L addition, Career Center redevelopment, etc.. At least the W-L addition has a planetarium and doesn’t feel like an office building—like the ones in Ballston. I think it blends into the campus nicely and it overlooks the athletic fields. The building itself is very distinctive.

That is utter BS. There are zero citizens pushing for dense urban concept schools except county boards who want to save land for their developer buddy/campaign donors. There have active requests for a 4th comprehensive high school for at least 6 or 7 years, with ideas at Kenmore or the VHC site on Carlin Springs Rd, or even Career Center (albeit with a smaller neighborhood high school which is NOT wanted).

The WL addition was simply a stop gap because the students have to go somewhere, and WL had the adjacent office building they could repurpose.

The New HB/Heights urban school was made in to HB precisely because most neighborhood parents/citizens did NOT want their neighborhood middle school in Rosslyn and preferred the suburban style Hamm campus. HB was given the urban location precisely because it was an option school so parents/students would have the right to opt out.

APS planned and proposed to tear down the administrative offices and planetarium and build a more expensive new school addition but the community was outraged the historic structure would be demolished. So APS was forced by the community preservationists to preserve the building facade and planetarium, and to design and construct the educational spaces inside without altering the historic building exterior.

For a new low rise suburban style high school with surface parking lot, swimming pool, and stadium, the Kennore site is the only one that could work, but the community there was outraged at the idea and blocked it as I recall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) why not Hamm?

2) look closely at WL and how they are adding 600 student seats to an already overcrowded campus via office conversions

W-L’s not overcrowded now and the trailers will disappear. W-L will be close to the size of the larger Fairfax County high schools as the new addition fills up. Wakefield is currently the most overcrowded school. Yorktown was accepting transfers from the W-L zone without preconditions, and that may have been extended to the Wakefield zone. But I’m not sure.

W-L will have the POPULATION of a large Fairfax school (2600) in a building built for 2000 students plus the office addition (some small lunch room, etc) on a campus that is a fraction of the size of a Fairfax school.

Yorktown doesn’t take WL transfers, and least not in last 2 years when our neighbor tried.

Arlington citizens have been pushing for the dense urban concept schools for years. The new HB/Heights school in Rosslyn, the W-L addition, Career Center redevelopment, etc.. At least the W-L addition has a planetarium and doesn’t feel like an office building—like the ones in Ballston. I think it blends into the campus nicely and it overlooks the athletic fields. The building itself is very distinctive.

That is utter BS. There are zero citizens pushing for dense urban concept schools except county boards who want to save land for their developer buddy/campaign donors. There have active requests for a 4th comprehensive high school for at least 6 or 7 years, with ideas at Kenmore or the VHC site on Carlin Springs Rd, or even Career Center (albeit with a smaller neighborhood high school which is NOT wanted).

The WL addition was simply a stop gap because the students have to go somewhere, and WL had the adjacent office building they could repurpose.

The New HB/Heights urban school was made in to HB precisely because most neighborhood parents/citizens did NOT want their neighborhood middle school in Rosslyn and preferred the suburban style Hamm campus. HB was given the urban location precisely because it was an option school so parents/students would have the right to opt out.

APS planned and proposed to tear down the administrative offices and planetarium and build a more expensive new school addition but the community was outraged the historic structure would be demolished. So APS was forced by the community preservationists to preserve the building facade and planetarium, and to design and construct the educational spaces inside without altering the historic building exterior.

For a new low rise suburban style high school with surface parking lot, swimming pool, and stadium, the Kennore site is the only one that could work, but the community there was outraged at the idea and blocked it as I recall.

Well yeah, basically you have young parents begging for more high school seats for this kids while paying crazy amounts for housing, and the boomers are complaining about traffic and 70s "historical preservation". I think everyone was fond of the planetarium, but honestly if they had rebuilt that office building they likely would have just made WL even bigger given the opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) why not Hamm?

2) look closely at WL and how they are adding 600 student seats to an already overcrowded campus via office conversions

W-L’s not overcrowded now and the trailers will disappear. W-L will be close to the size of the larger Fairfax County high schools as the new addition fills up. Wakefield is currently the most overcrowded school. Yorktown was accepting transfers from the W-L zone without preconditions, and that may have been extended to the Wakefield zone. But I’m not sure.

W-L will have the POPULATION of a large Fairfax school (2600) in a building built for 2000 students plus the office addition (some small lunch room, etc) on a campus that is a fraction of the size of a Fairfax school.

Yorktown doesn’t take WL transfers, and least not in last 2 years when our neighbor tried.

Arlington citizens have been pushing for the dense urban concept schools for years. The new HB/Heights school in Rosslyn, the W-L addition, Career Center redevelopment, etc.. At least the W-L addition has a planetarium and doesn’t feel like an office building—like the ones in Ballston. I think it blends into the campus nicely and it overlooks the athletic fields. The building itself is very distinctive.

That is utter BS. There are zero citizens pushing for dense urban concept schools except county boards who want to save land for their developer buddy/campaign donors. There have active requests for a 4th comprehensive high school for at least 6 or 7 years, with ideas at Kenmore or the VHC site on Carlin Springs Rd, or even Career Center (albeit with a smaller neighborhood high school which is NOT wanted).

The WL addition was simply a stop gap because the students have to go somewhere, and WL had the adjacent office building they could repurpose.

The New HB/Heights urban school was made in to HB precisely because most neighborhood parents/citizens did NOT want their neighborhood middle school in Rosslyn and preferred the suburban style Hamm campus. HB was given the urban location precisely because it was an option school so parents/students would have the right to opt out.

APS planned and proposed to tear down the administrative offices and planetarium and build a more expensive new school addition but the community was outraged the historic structure would be demolished. So APS was forced by the community preservationists to preserve the building facade and planetarium, and to design and construct the educational spaces inside without altering the historic building exterior.

For a new low rise suburban style high school with surface parking lot, swimming pool, and stadium, the Kennore site is the only one that could work, but the community there was outraged at the idea and blocked it as I recall.

Well yeah, basically you have young parents begging for more high school seats for this kids while paying crazy amounts for housing, and the boomers are complaining about traffic and 70s "historical preservation". I think everyone was fond of the planetarium, but honestly if they had rebuilt that office building they likely would have just made WL even bigger given the opportunity.

Yes. It's a "catch-22" with the generational divide, but there have been some success stories. The problematic high-rise urban concept middle school did not get built. And the beautiful Dorothy Hamm Middle School and adjacent sports facilities opened to wide acclaim. Unfortunately the other middle schools like Williamsburg, etc., now feel very old fashioned by comparison.