Imagine speaking out in favor of the right for your kid maliciously bullying a student

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. I hate this entire debate. Why can't people just live their own lives in peace, and accept that people get to say what their names/genders are? There are millions of people at risk of starvation in Asia and Africa, more than usual because of the war in Ukraine and profiteering on the grain market. Why don't we do something about REAL issues instead of fighting over what one kid said to the other?

FIFY

[Anonymous]

pro trans and pro free speech here.

I agree this is a bad policy. misgendering can absolutely be part of bullying, and all bullying policies I’ve seen are broad enough to accomodate that.

Making a specific type of speech per se bullying regardless of intent or severity violates the 1st amendment.

These kinds of speech codes do nothing to actually help trans kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. I hate this entire debate. Why can't people just live their own lives in peace, and accept that sometimes people will be weird and call them by the wrong name? There are millions of people at risk of starvation in Asia and Africa, more than usual because of the war in Ukraine and profiteering on the grain market. Why don't we do something about REAL issues instead of fighting over what one kid said to the other?

Just to answer this- because the local school board governs schools not Africa or Ukraine. Those are global concerns. Feel free to advocate on their behalf, write legislators, etc. I think its interesting that you say things like "lives in peace" being equated with being called the wrong name or gender- likely, repeatedly and in the cases we are talking about, maliciously.
Do you know how many times as a server I accidently said yes sir or yes mam to the wrong gender because I was on auto. Or said youre welcome when I meant thank you because my mind was 100 different places? Those are mistakes. Slips.

Being introduced to someone named Carol and then purposefully calling them CARL is malicious and means that you think that you are more important than they are. It isnt weird. Its purposeful. Deliberate.

I have a named like Suzanne but I go be a subset name, Suzie. I use the subset name in all my correspondence with one individual and they continue to use my full name. It is annoying and it feels condescending. Im not responding to his email by saying Johnathan when he goes by John or Joe because of John. Its common decency and respect.

The irony of your post is that you call for "common decency and respect," but apparently agree the School Board should regulate such matters in the SR&R and has the ability to discern whether a student who is the equivalent of your e-mail correspondent is acting "maliciously" or not.

If they just told kids to treat others as they would like to be treated themselves, wouldn't it be more direct? But, no, they have to earn points with Fairfax Pride by devoting untoward hours in work sessions and Board meetings to line-editing the SR&R. Depending on whether and how this policy gets enforced, they are just setting themselves up for more litigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These parents… are … beyond help. Who calls it a “free speech” or “compelled speech” to be punished if you maliciously deadname a transgender child or purposefully refuse to use their preferred pronouns?

And this elementary school argument is bunk and a red herring. Agree the punishment might be too severe for younger children who might not know better but by the same token I don’t see a second grader ever behaving in such a manner.

https://wjla.com/news/local/fairfax-county-school-board-meeting-parents-rally-malicious-misgendering-policy-lbgtq-pronouns-gender-identity-virginia-youngkin-schools-elementary-education-queer-gay-rights

It was awful. I watched it and guess what- that whole thing was passed last year.

And they didn’t even read the new language about malice.

[Anonymous]

They voted on it last night. It need to have malicious intent.

I don’t see the big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They voted on it last night. It need to have malicious intent.

I don’t see the big deal.

Isn't this already covered by the bullying rules?
Why single out "misgendering?" Are they going to single out every situation in which a child might be bullied?

I think it is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They voted on it last night. It need to have malicious intent.

I don’t see the big deal.

Isn't this already covered by the bullying rules?
Why single out "misgendering?" Are they going to single out every situation in which a child might be bullied?

I think it is ridiculous.

I think that that is the reason why it’s in the SRR.

Kids are stupid. They say stupid things.

But make it in the handbook- less stupidity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They voted on it last night. It need to have malicious intent.

I don’t see the big deal.

+1, if it’s malicious, there should be a consequence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. I hate this entire debate. Why can't people just live their own lives in peace, and accept that sometimes people will be weird and call them by the wrong name? There are millions of people at risk of starvation in Asia and Africa, more than usual because of the war in Ukraine and profiteering on the grain market. Why don't we do something about REAL issues instead of fighting over what one kid said to the other?

Just to answer this- because the local school board governs schools not Africa or Ukraine. Those are global concerns. Feel free to advocate on their behalf, write legislators, etc. I think its interesting that you say things like "lives in peace" being equated with being called the wrong name or gender- likely, repeatedly and in the cases we are talking about, maliciously.
Do you know how many times as a server I accidently said yes sir or yes mam to the wrong gender because I was on auto. Or said youre welcome when I meant thank you because my mind was 100 different places? Those are mistakes. Slips.

Being introduced to someone named Carol and then purposefully calling them CARL is malicious and means that you think that you are more important than they are. It isnt weird. Its purposeful. Deliberate.

I have a named like Suzanne but I go be a subset name, Suzie. I use the subset name in all my correspondence with one individual and they continue to use my full name. It is annoying and it feels condescending. Im not responding to his email by saying Johnathan when he goes by John or Joe because of John. Its common decency and respect.

The irony of your post is that you call for "common decency and respect," but apparently agree the School Board should regulate such matters in the SR&R and has the ability to discern whether a student who is the equivalent of your e-mail correspondent is acting "maliciously" or not.

If they just told kids to treat others as they would like to be treated themselves, wouldn't it be more direct? But, no, they have to earn points with Fairfax Pride by devoting untoward hours in work sessions and Board meetings to line-editing the SR&R. Depending on whether and how this policy gets enforced, they are just setting themselves up for more litigation.

Do you really think that your suggestion is worthwhile policy? Do you think that if schools just said kids treat each other like you want to be treated there'd be no bullying there'd be fighting there to be no teasing there'd be no making fun of somebody else for bad grades or crappy shoes or being poor?
Like how simple must your world be if you think that everything that happens in a school can be solved by saying treat one another like you would like to be treated.

The reason I'm saying the email suggestion is because even if somebody who's an adult who can understand that this individual is being condescending and obnoxious just like previous posters who said that they won't call people the name that they want to be called because they don't like that name you can go ahead and look up a post on DC Urban moms that talks about that then a child doesn't have the ability to be like well I don't care about that person that comes with maturity and being able to understand that some people are just a$$holes and it's not a reflection of you it's a reflection of them

With children you need to be even more clear about the boundaries I don't care if another kid introduces himself as frog. My child should respond and be like okay frog what's up?

The problem that you have is people don't want to treat those that are different from them like themselves because they see themselves as separate from others. Malicious would be repeatedly using names or pronouns that the other person doesn't introduce himself with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. I hate this entire debate. Why can't people just live their own lives in peace, and accept that sometimes people will be weird and call them by the wrong name? There are millions of people at risk of starvation in Asia and Africa, more than usual because of the war in Ukraine and profiteering on the grain market. Why don't we do something about REAL issues instead of fighting over what one kid said to the other?

Just to answer this- because the local school board governs schools not Africa or Ukraine. Those are global concerns. Feel free to advocate on their behalf, write legislators, etc. I think its interesting that you say things like "lives in peace" being equated with being called the wrong name or gender- likely, repeatedly and in the cases we are talking about, maliciously.
Do you know how many times as a server I accidently said yes sir or yes mam to the wrong gender because I was on auto. Or said youre welcome when I meant thank you because my mind was 100 different places? Those are mistakes. Slips.

Being introduced to someone named Carol and then purposefully calling them CARL is malicious and means that you think that you are more important than they are. It isnt weird. Its purposeful. Deliberate.

I have a named like Suzanne but I go be a subset name, Suzie. I use the subset name in all my correspondence with one individual and they continue to use my full name. It is annoying and it feels condescending. Im not responding to his email by saying Johnathan when he goes by John or Joe because of John. Its common decency and respect.

The irony of your post is that you call for "common decency and respect," but apparently agree the School Board should regulate such matters in the SR&R and has the ability to discern whether a student who is the equivalent of your e-mail correspondent is acting "maliciously" or not.

If they just told kids to treat others as they would like to be treated themselves, wouldn't it be more direct? But, no, they have to earn points with Fairfax Pride by devoting untoward hours in work sessions and Board meetings to line-editing the SR&R. Depending on whether and how this policy gets enforced, they are just setting themselves up for more litigation.

Do you really think that your suggestion is worthwhile policy? Do you think that if schools just said kids treat each other like you want to be treated there'd be no bullying there'd be fighting there to be no teasing there'd be no making fun of somebody else for bad grades or crappy shoes or being poor?
Like how simple must your world be if you think that everything that happens in a school can be solved by saying treat one another like you would like to be treated.

The reason I'm saying the email suggestion is because even if somebody who's an adult who can understand that this individual is being condescending and obnoxious just like previous posters who said that they won't call people the name that they want to be called because they don't like that name you can go ahead and look up a post on DC Urban moms that talks about that then a child doesn't have the ability to be like well I don't care about that person that comes with maturity and being able to understand that some people are just a$$holes and it's not a reflection of you it's a reflection of them

With children you need to be even more clear about the boundaries I don't care if another kid introduces himself as frog. My child should respond and be like okay frog what's up?

The problem that you have is people don't want to treat those that are different from them like themselves because they see themselves as separate from others. Malicious would be repeatedly using names or pronouns that the other person doesn't introduce himself with.

You do realize you're ranting, right?

Also, you've supplied your own definition of what "malicious" means. How comfortable should we be that gloss this will be understood and applied consistently? Or will it be another example of a disciplinary policy that some parents claim is applied selectively or in a discriminatory fashion?

In any event, this is the only type of issue this School Board apparently has time for. Learning loss, leaking roofs, declining SOL scores, trailers - save it all for some other day that never materializes where they actually talk about the problems that matter to more families.

[Anonymous]

Looking forward to the first lawsuit by a student who was suspended because he/she "misgendered" someone.

Good times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are republicans so afraid of life? Oh noes, the gays! Oh noes, the trans! Oh noes, new ideas!

Because breaking down traditions and institutions has been so helpful for society as a whole and for individuals...

It's been helpful to people who are historically oppressed. There were no good old days unless you were a white man. And guess what? Your values (e.g., being anti-gay, etc) are not everyone else's.

[Anonymous]

Kids not using different pronouns is not necessarily bulling. This is getting absurd. We’ve had teachers not pronounce my child’s name and it’s an easy name. Should we get them fired? My kid is so uncomfortable with all the school talks and feels being straight is not ok and it’s only ok if you are gay or trans. We are ruining other kids by forcing these adgendas on them. I am very liberal but I’ve had enough with the damage it has done to my kid.

[Anonymous]

I would like everyone to feel respected and for no one to be bullied. At the same time, I don't want FCPS turning victimization into a form of social status and currency, whether through the curriculum, the off-the-cuff remarks of teachers, or the details of an SR&R policy.

It's not necessarily an easy balance to strike, and I have no doubt the far-right likes to seize on any wedge issues they can find. But I also feel like the current School Board isn't an honest broker and that their actions are also driven more by politics than by a desire to ensure a safe learning environment for students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would like everyone to feel respected and for no one to be bullied. At the same time, I don't want FCPS turning victimization into a form of social status and currency, whether through the curriculum, the off-the-cuff remarks of teachers, or the details of an SR&R policy.

It's not necessarily an easy balance to strike, and I have no doubt the far-right likes to seize on any wedge issues they can find. But I also feel like the current School Board isn't an honest broker and that their actions are also driven more by politics than by a desire to ensure a safe learning environment for students.

+1