Playseum and religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Brigid Schulte here again. The evidence is this: Westbrook Elementary School in Montgomery County had planned a kindergarten field trip there - the kids were learning about money and the Playseum had designed activities for the kids to learn and use money in exchange for goods and services. Some parents went to the principal to complain, in part because of the DCUM postings, and the trip was cancelled, citing separation of church and state. The story was brought to my attention by a blogger who takes her kids there and is upset by what's going on.

I, obviously, disagree with the poster who criticized me - to me, it makes sense to get input from this very forum that is having real-world consequences.

That's a pretty attenuated connection. A hearsay report by a blogger concerning one trip by one class at one school allegedly cancelled because of parental concerns *partially* based on some reports regarding the religious aspects of the site ... I don't know: does that pass muster for reasonable investigation in journalistic circles these days?

[Anonymous]

I took my two kids there once and we had a nice time. It wasn't overly crowded because there was a snow storm coming and it wasn't long after they opened. My "concerns" and reasons for probably not returning anytime soon are:

1. it did start to get busy as we were leaving, and I assumed it would be more crowded on more typical weather days, and after it had been open longer.
2. I wondered how well some of the toys were cleaned. Especially after seeing musical toys out that you use your mouth to play, make-up with brushes and soft cloth shoes.
3. My son has a wheat allergy, and the firetruck area, which he loved, is not far from the kitchen where the staff was baking cookies with the children. I don't know how well children's hands are cleaned after baking, but there is some posibility that the children would be running around covering all the toys with flour. The website didn't make this clear beforehand.
4. It was pretty expensive for just the couple of hours we went.
5. I would not be comfortable being there with more than one young child (Under age 5) since it could be hard to keep an eye on them due to the winding corridors and different rooms. When we went, both Mom and Dad were there with the two kids, so it worked out, but the fee to get in was also higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Brigid Schulte here again. The evidence is this: Westbrook Elementary School in Montgomery County had planned a kindergarten field trip there - the kids were learning about money and the Playseum had designed activities for the kids to learn and use money in exchange for goods and services. Some parents went to the principal to complain, in part because of the DCUM postings, and the trip was cancelled, citing separation of church and state. The story was brought to my attention by a blogger who takes her kids there and is upset by what's going on.

I, obviously, disagree with the poster who criticized me - to me, it makes sense to get input from this very forum that is having real-world consequences.

That's a pretty attenuated connection. A hearsay report by a blogger concerning one trip by one class at one school allegedly cancelled because of parental concerns *partially* based on some reports regarding the religious aspects of the site ... I don't know: does that pass muster for reasonable investigation in journalistic circles these days?

Presumably, the reporter will confirm with the school. You don't really think she'd write a story based ONLY on hearsay, do you? It sounds like she is just beginning her research and is looking for more information (preumably from a variety of sources). That's so typical of people here -- jump to a conclusion and judge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't meant to hijack the thread but I just have one question that didn't seem worth opening a new thread for--is it true that Interactions in Kensington is closing, as mentioned above? When? Why?

I'm the PP who posted that Interactions is closing. It's closing May 29th.

I'm a little disappointed, as I really liked Interactions. It was clean and the owners were always nice.

Here's the link:

http://mysite.verizon.net/biz112okv/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Presumably, the reporter will confirm with the school. You don't really think she'd write a story based ONLY on hearsay, do you? It sounds like she is just beginning her research and is looking for more information (preumably from a variety of sources). That's so typical of people here -- jump to a conclusion and judge.

Frankly, given that Schulte said that she came to DCUM seeking "input" precisely because this forum was having "real world consequences," it seems to be me that she is the one who has drawn her conclusion -- based, by her own admission, on a very thin thread. Hope that's not the case, but that is what it sounds like.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Frankly, given that Schulte said that she came to DCUM seeking "input" precisely because this forum was having "real world consequences," it seems to be me that she is the one who has drawn her conclusion -- based, by her own admission, on a very thin thread. Hope that's not the case, but that is what it sounds like.

I think there are two separate issues here. 1) did someone post a false story on DCUM and stir up lots of ill will toward Playseum (the answer is increasingly looking like "yes"), and 2) did that lead to a drop in business for Playseum. On the second question, the jury is probably still out.

[Anonymous]

Ms. Shulte--

I have never been to the Playseum, but my mother and my husband take my 2-year-old daughter there a number of times, and it's a big hit in our family. It sounds like a wonderful place for kids to play and learn, and I especially appreciate that there are books in each room.

I am awfully sorry to hear that business is declining at this unique, non-corporate, woman-owned play space, and disturbed to think that rumors generated on this forum and elsewhere could be contributing to that decline. That said, a few times when my mom has wanted to take my daughter to the Playseum, the line has been so long that she decided it would be too crowded and left. Also, with the weather getting nicer, I think kids are just outdoors more.

Anyhow, we'll keep going to the Playseum, and I hope it will be around for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Frankly, given that Schulte said that she came to DCUM seeking "input" precisely because this forum was having "real world consequences," it seems to be me that she is the one who has drawn her conclusion -- based, by her own admission, on a very thin thread. Hope that's not the case, but that is what it sounds like.

I think there are two separate issues here. 1) did someone post a false story on DCUM and stir up lots of ill will toward Playseum (the answer is increasingly looking like "yes"), and 2) did that lead to a drop in business for Playseum. On the second question, the jury is probably still out.

How dangerous for the OP of that thread, Jeff. Seriously. Because if the reporter's story about the school canceling its trip because of that allegation is true, the owner of Playseum can demonstrate she was financially harmed by the OP's false allegations. That would actually be grounds for a lible lawsuit. Have you ever had to turn over IP addresses for an investigation like this?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
How dangerous for the OP of that thread, Jeff. Seriously. Because if the reporter's story about the school canceling its trip because of that allegation is true, the owner of Playseum can demonstrate she was financially harmed by the OP's false allegations. That would actually be grounds for a lible lawsuit. Have you ever had to turn over IP addresses for an investigation like this?

I have never had to turn over IP addresses for an investigation like this. I have cooperated with the FBI in one instance to provide IP addresses. That case was significantly different than this and I did so without coercion (hence, didn't "have" to). Given the circumstances of this situation, I would provide the address if asked.

[Anonymous]

I posted earlier that your story will probably hurt the place more. You can't really write a story about this without acknowledging the religious statements on the web site. This alone, as evidenced by some of the posts, would turn some people off who otherwise would never see it or think twice to go looking for it. I have never searched through the website where DD takes gymnastics and for all I know they could be pagans or born-again evangelicals.

The story also strikes me as one of the bigger problems with the media today. The media has a terrible influence on public opinion by spinning out stories from blogs and making them bigger than they are to a wider audience. They take on a life of their own and then the media runs another cycle reporting on how the media influenced it. The pundits debate whether they acted appropriately and always come to the conclusion that they did. The level of "screaming" and non-sensical outbursts or left field opinions that get center stage thanks to the media are directly contributing to the political problems in the country.

As an MCPS parent I would have been ticked off about a field trip to Playseum to practice money with goods/services. This is an activity that the school could so easily set up in the classroom. They could buy a few small cash registers, play money, and set up little shop areas. They could get Safeway or Giant to donate recycled re-usable grocery bags, parents could bring in empty packages or other things. They could even role play with some kids being the cashier and some being the shoppers. They would then have this activity for future years and could spend their limited field trip money and time on something they could not do in school. They could go to the American History museum and learn about innovation. The guy who does the electricity demonstrations was great! The kids got to work a generator and they had other very cool hands on experiments that would be difficult to do in the school.

MCPS is a big bureacracy and parents have a hard time influencing the curriculum to get more art, science, nature, music or other things that will not be on future tests included. Some parents may have been upset by perceptions that Playseum was religious but other parents may have realized that the only way to get action was to point out the religious statements on the web and make an argument administrators would listen to and consider.

[Anonymous]

11:15: exactly. Why use limited resources to go on a field trip to a playspace to figure out how to use money? Ill-conceived, for lots of reasons, whether it is Gymboree or any other establishment.

[bschulte]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Brigid Schulte here again. The evidence is this: Westbrook Elementary School in Montgomery County had planned a kindergarten field trip there - the kids were learning about money and the Playseum had designed activities for the kids to learn and use money in exchange for goods and services. Some parents went to the principal to complain, in part because of the DCUM postings, and the trip was cancelled, citing separation of church and state. The story was brought to my attention by a blogger who takes her kids there and is upset by what's going on.

I, obviously, disagree with the poster who criticized me - to me, it makes sense to get input from this very forum that is having real-world consequences.

That's a pretty attenuated connection. A hearsay report by a blogger concerning one trip by one class at one school allegedly cancelled because of parental concerns *partially* based on some reports regarding the religious aspects of the site ... I don't know: does that pass muster for reasonable investigation in journalistic circles these days?

Brigid Schulte again: church state concern affirmed by school officials. Not a tenuous connection. The hearsay is here. That's what I'm trying to explore. It IS investigation right now. This isn't the story for goodness sakes.

[Anonymous]

bschulte wrote:Brigid Schulte again: church state concern affirmed by school officials. Not a tenuous connection. The hearsay is here. That's what I'm trying to explore. It IS investigation right now. This isn't the story for goodness sakes.

Oh, wow -- stop the presses: one school class cancelled a trip!

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How dangerous for the OP of that thread, Jeff. Seriously. Because if the reporter's story about the school canceling its trip because of that allegation is true, the owner of Playseum can demonstrate she was financially harmed by the OP's false allegations. That would actually be grounds for a lible lawsuit. Have you ever had to turn over IP addresses for an investigation like this?

I have never had to turn over IP addresses for an investigation like this. I have cooperated with the FBI in one instance to provide IP addresses. That case was significantly different than this and I did so without coercion (hence, didn't "have" to). Given the circumstances of this situation, I would provide the address if asked.

But Jeff, doesn't she open the door to concerns about religion and the Playseum by posting all the stuff about God and how running the Playseum is part of her religious practice on the internet right on the website for the Playseum? The RIOT kids group she runs meets at the Playseum and it's an evangelical Christian group for teens. Do they only meet during hours the business isn't open to the public? I posted that I have been there several times and haven't heard anything untoward said to customers, but if that poster (who admittedly looks suspicous) claims that Gina had a conversation about Jesus with her, it's she said/she said, no? I think even if DCUM didn't exist, statements on her website like

GOD-Giver of breathe and we endeavor to honor Him in all of our affairs. (including the Playseum since it's on the website)

would or SHOULD give a PUBLIC school pause. There was a whole thread recently about Starbucks and how people disagreed with their percieved politics, so didn't spend % there. I think it's totally legitimate for parents in a public school to question why the field trip was a good idea, preaching or no, it's still public $ going to an evangelical Christian business. My family is not Christian and has spent $ there but I can understand why others might not choose to do so. I could be wrong but I think that there is also a direct connection between Gina and that school and if so, the parents and administration would again be aware of her religious leanings by means other than DCUM. You can have your own position on IP addresses, but this case is quite different than the other instance. Gina really needs to take some responsibility for putting her religion out there on the website of what she wants to portray as a secular business to get public school funds. Can't have it both ways. And the learnng about $ connection and the Playseum is tenuous at best.

[Anonymous]

yeah, i can't believe that the owner of playseum is complaining about a drop-off in business due to religious discrimination. SHE is the one making an issue of god. you can't have it both ways. she has opened herself up with the god stuff on her website. i would not touch her establishment with a ten-foot pole. and i would be very uncomfortable with my child's public school bringing a class there. she has portrayed her establishment as "christian". i read that as there may be subtle indoctrination going on there. so not interested in that!