Thoughts on St. John’s College in Annapolis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not very hard to get into and it costs a lot.

+1 It's a good safety for full pay kids who're interested in liberal arts colleges.

I don’t think you know much about this particular school, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a Johnnie. It’s a very niche school for a very specific kind of learner. It’s true the dorms, especially for underclassmen, are pretty lacking and my kid and her friends complain a lot about the food. But the academics are exactly what she wanted, as is the whole approach to learning in general. In terms of partying, I’ve not heard about that but I’m mom, so who knows?

Admission rate is high but that’s because of who applies. Most people who choose to apply are the kinds of kids who really fit the profile of what they are looking for. I hosted a bunch of my daughter’s friends for Thanksgiving and I was amazed that all but one them ED, many without strong ideas of a second choice if they didn’t get in.

It is expensive but my kid gets a lot of merit aid on top of FA. They have a healthy endowment and they are generous. It’s still a stretch for us but it’s about what we’d pay in-state with no assistance.

My best advice is to believe them when they describe what the classes are and aren’t. My kid’s freshman roommate transferred after the fall semester because she didn’t like how much reading/writing/discussion was involved. There are no majors and really no grades (they do assessments but it’s very unlike anything else out there). So you need to be truly committed to a classic liberal arts education to be happy.

This is all very helpful. Thank you. How would you describe what the classes are like or what kind of learner fits in here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a Johnnie. It’s a very niche school for a very specific kind of learner. It’s true the dorms, especially for underclassmen, are pretty lacking and my kid and her friends complain a lot about the food. But the academics are exactly what she wanted, as is the whole approach to learning in general. In terms of partying, I’ve not heard about that but I’m mom, so who knows?

Admission rate is high but that’s because of who applies. Most people who choose to apply are the kinds of kids who really fit the profile of what they are looking for. I hosted a bunch of my daughter’s friends for Thanksgiving and I was amazed that all but one them ED, many without strong ideas of a second choice if they didn’t get in.

It is expensive but my kid gets a lot of merit aid on top of FA. They have a healthy endowment and they are generous. It’s still a stretch for us but it’s about what we’d pay in-state with no assistance.

My best advice is to believe them when they describe what the classes are and aren’t. My kid’s freshman roommate transferred after the fall semester because she didn’t like how much reading/writing/discussion was involved. There are no majors and really no grades (they do assessments but it’s very unlike anything else out there). So you need to be truly committed to a classic liberal arts education to be happy.

This is all very helpful. Thank you. How would you describe what the classes are like or what kind of learner fits in here?

So this is going to sound odd, but check out their official instagram page. There is a current freshman who is a talented cartoonist who has been doing a series of comics describing what life is like on campus. My daughter says it's a very accurate picture of what life on campus is like, from the academics to the social scene.

Classes are all based in reading primary sources and most of the work they do is discussion-based. So, for example, instead of a math textbook and traditional math formulas, they read Euclid's Elements and go through each concept in depth (there's apparently a tradition to get your favorite element tattooed at the end of freshman year but my kid didn't go through with it.) They don't pick their schedules, they are simply assigned their class times, and all of them take the same thing freshman and sophomore year. So all freshmen take Greek but not all at the same time and day. In junior and senior year they do have some electives but it's still a small part of the larger program which is very prescribed.

Two evenings a week all the students have seminars and while there are a bunch of different classes going on at once, they all come together at the end for refreshments. There is a culture of dressing up for seminar and the time after is a big social scene. They have waltz parties, they play croquet in costume, they act out Shakespeare on the steps of their dorms....you get the idea.

It's really nirvana for a certain flavor of learner who loves reading books and talking endlessly about them. There are no majors, so you are coming out with a degree in liberal arts and no specialized coursework, but the school has systems in place to help students meet academic needs for things like getting into law or medical school. My kid could not be happier and her friends are all lovely and weird and get her completely. I was worried when she first started that there was a lack of diversity in terms of the kinds of learners on campus but by now I've come to understand that while it very much a "hothouse" of hardworking book nerds, there is lots of room for heated debate and difference of opinion. And I've watched enough upperclassmen go on to their next big thing to feel good about what my child will do next.

[Anonymous]

I went a wonderful emergency room nurse who went there. She was very grateful for the education, but went on to do something more practical later. So, they don't all become lawyers or academics, although St. John's is great preparation for those fields.

[Anonymous]

How do the students lean politically? Is it super conservative, what with the Western civilization focus?

[Anonymous]

I went with my daughter who loved the curriculum. The curriculum is incredible for those who want that kind of core curriculum. There is a lot to love about the seminar classes and focus on engaging deeply in material and conversation. However, there is a big attrition rate because the experience of college is more than classes. There are so few students there to connect with and that is great for small classes but tough for a robust experience where you can meet new people through clubs, etc. that just doesn't exist. The food is just awful which doesn't seem like a big deal unless you have to eat it 3x a day most days a week. I was shocked at how bad it was. If you love what St Johns offers you should look at UChicago and Columbia which are the only other non-religious schools that offer the kind of commitment to the core curriculum. The most recent president of St Johns left last year to go help found/run the University of Austin (brand new college focused on open dialogue run by mostly liberatarian/right wingers with a sprinkling of non-cancel culture liberals).

[Anonymous]

I have an professional colleague who went there. Super smart lovely person who talks enthusiastically about her experience there.

She said it was the right fit her her BUT she had an older cousin who went there who helped her make sure it was the right fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went with my daughter who loved the curriculum. The curriculum is incredible for those who want that kind of core curriculum. There is a lot to love about the seminar classes and focus on engaging deeply in material and conversation. However, there is a big attrition rate because the experience of college is more than classes. There are so few students there to connect with and that is great for small classes but tough for a robust experience where you can meet new people through clubs, etc. that just doesn't exist. The food is just awful which doesn't seem like a big deal unless you have to eat it 3x a day most days a week. I was shocked at how bad it was. If you love what St Johns offers you should look at UChicago and Columbia which are the only other non-religious schools that offer the kind of commitment to the core curriculum. The most recent president of St Johns left last year to go help found/run the University of Austin (brand new college focused on open dialogue run by mostly liberatarian/right wingers with a sprinkling of non-cancel culture liberals).

The reverse of the bolded for those who love the UChicago and Columbia is to consider St. John's College. Given the formers' admit rates - Columbia's at sub-4% - a student can receive a similar education at St. John's. (Fun fact: the core may have originated at Columbia. One of its founders moved to UCHICAGO. There was always a close relationship between UChicago and St. John's with UChicago's Mortimer Adler making his annual trip to St. John's.)

[Anonymous]

Antiquated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Antiquated.

It's not for everyone.
It's not a pre-professional school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not very hard to get into and it costs a lot.

+1 It's a good safety for full pay kids who're interested in liberal arts colleges.

I don’t think you know much about this particular school, PP.

But I think I do. My full pay nephew with <4.0 WGPA and 1300ish SAT from NOVA got in, but he chose JMU instead.

[Anonymous]

That doesn’t mean you have any notion as to why the school is very different from most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That doesn’t mean you have any notion as to why the school is very different from most.

One of my law school classmates went there, and he was the biggest windbag I ever met. Very well-read, but had no idea how to apply all those great thoughts to the real world. I don't know where he ended up working. Maybe he's a philosopher king somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Well they certainly do have a great track record of getting kids into good law schools and other grad programs. I'm sure some percentage of these kids are going to be blowhards, just like with every other top feeder college. Having gone to a T14 myself, I'm not sure what about a SJC education would be less applicable than studying at UVA or William & Mary since very little of what one studies in law school is about "the real world" anyhow. Most of the cases you read as a 1L involve Regina and were written in the 1800s. LOL!

[Anonymous]

The most brilliant person I know went to St. John's. He's now a college professor.