Race and TJ admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This issue is much more nuanced than simply low expectations for URMs. Imagine the great majority of Black and Hispanic kids in Fairfax County had similar (very high) socio-economic status equivalent to the average wealth of Langley, McLean, Chantilly families who are sending their kids to TJ. In that case, yes, giving URMs bonus points to get into TJ would be ridiculous.

However, the reality is that the majority of URMs are living in the lower-middle class or below poverty level. Why do you think all the "good" school districts have very few Hispanic and Black kids? Why do all the "bad" schools have so many Hispanic and Black kids? It always goes back to the inability to afford expensive housing, which leads to concentrated pockets of poverty in specific schools, which leads to bad outcomes in schools, which leads to what we have now.

Then why not tie favoritism to socio-economic class and not race?

They won't because many Asians are from middle or lower middle class and they do not want to give any preference to lower or lower middle class Asian students. Only to black or Hispanic students. Hypocrites.

This point is often touted, but I'd be very curious to see real data on wealth of Asians (those applying and getting into TJ). I'd bet they skew heavily to the upper-middle class and above. Which schools have highest concentrations of Asian students? Chantilly, Langley, Woodson, Centreville, McLean, Oakton. Those also happen to be the ones sending the majority of kids to TJ. Also I don't see a whole lot of low-income apartments or cheap homes in those boundaries. So where exactly are all the masses of poor, super hard-working Asians that are now being denied acceptance to TJ? Are they at Whitman MS? Poe MS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This issue is much more nuanced than simply low expectations for URMs. Imagine the great majority of Black and Hispanic kids in Fairfax County had similar (very high) socio-economic status equivalent to the average wealth of Langley, McLean, Chantilly families who are sending their kids to TJ. In that case, yes, giving URMs bonus points to get into TJ would be ridiculous.

However, the reality is that the majority of URMs are living in the lower-middle class or below poverty level. Why do you think all the "good" school districts have very few Hispanic and Black kids? Why do all the "bad" schools have so many Hispanic and Black kids? It always goes back to the inability to afford expensive housing, which leads to concentrated pockets of poverty in specific schools, which leads to bad outcomes in schools, which leads to what we have now.

The problem is most Asian TJ Students are middle class not upper middle or upper in SES. Stop spreading misinformation. You must be a Russian Asset.

That is COMPLETELY false. Just, beyond embarrassingly false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This issue is much more nuanced than simply low expectations for URMs. Imagine the great majority of Black and Hispanic kids in Fairfax County had similar (very high) socio-economic status equivalent to the average wealth of Langley, McLean, Chantilly families who are sending their kids to TJ. In that case, yes, giving URMs bonus points to get into TJ would be ridiculous.

However, the reality is that the majority of URMs are living in the lower-middle class or below poverty level. Why do you think all the "good" school districts have very few Hispanic and Black kids? Why do all the "bad" schools have so many Hispanic and Black kids? It always goes back to the inability to afford expensive housing, which leads to concentrated pockets of poverty in specific schools, which leads to bad outcomes in schools, which leads to what we have now.

Then why not tie favoritism to socio-economic class and not race?

They won't because many Asians are from middle or lower middle class and they do not want to give any preference to lower or lower middle class Asian students. Only to black or Hispanic students. Hypocrites.

This point is often touted, but I'd be very curious to see real data on wealth of Asians (those applying and getting into TJ). I'd bet they skew heavily to the upper-middle class and above. Which schools have highest concentrations of Asian students? Chantilly, Langley, Woodson, Centreville, McLean, Oakton. Those also happen to be the ones sending the majority of kids to TJ. Also I don't see a whole lot of low-income apartments or cheap homes in those boundaries. So where exactly are all the masses of poor, super hard-working Asians that are now being denied acceptance to TJ? Are they at Whitman MS? Poe MS?

The balance of Asians attending TJ are in the wealthy outer suburbs of Fairfax or in Loudoun. They are also about 60% South Asian, and the South Asian population is SIGNIFICANTLY wealthier than the East/SE Asian population.

Like, it’s not close.

[Anonymous]

Both sides are correct on this

The folks getting in weren't upper class but there was barely any free or reduced lunch kids in the class either

The SB messed up because folks on there were clearly talking about race instead of just geographic or socioeconomic diversity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This issue is much more nuanced than simply low expectations for URMs. Imagine the great majority of Black and Hispanic kids in Fairfax County had similar (very high) socio-economic status equivalent to the average wealth of Langley, McLean, Chantilly families who are sending their kids to TJ. In that case, yes, giving URMs bonus points to get into TJ would be ridiculous.

However, the reality is that the majority of URMs are living in the lower-middle class or below poverty level. Why do you think all the "good" school districts have very few Hispanic and Black kids? Why do all the "bad" schools have so many Hispanic and Black kids? It always goes back to the inability to afford expensive housing, which leads to concentrated pockets of poverty in specific schools, which leads to bad outcomes in schools, which leads to what we have now.

Then why not tie favoritism to socio-economic class and not race?

They do through Experience Factors for underrepresented schools (which tracks with SES) and Economically Disadvantaged.

There are no favors directly given for race, though it looks that way because of how closely race tracks with SES in Northern VA.

[Anonymous]

It also looks that way because of all the board, superintendent and principal comments.

And the "attending school" experience factor cuts against merit by making it harder for kids who chose to attend a center to get into TJ, even if they do live in an area that has been underrepresented at TJ in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This issue is much more nuanced than simply low expectations for URMs. Imagine the great majority of Black and Hispanic kids in Fairfax County had similar (very high) socio-economic status equivalent to the average wealth of Langley, McLean, Chantilly families who are sending their kids to TJ. In that case, yes, giving URMs bonus points to get into TJ would be ridiculous.

However, the reality is that the majority of URMs are living in the lower-middle class or below poverty level. Why do you think all the "good" school districts have very few Hispanic and Black kids? Why do all the "bad" schools have so many Hispanic and Black kids? It always goes back to the inability to afford expensive housing, which leads to concentrated pockets of poverty in specific schools, which leads to bad outcomes in schools, which leads to what we have now.

Then why not tie favoritism to socio-economic class and not race?

They won't because many Asians are from middle or lower middle class and they do not want to give any preference to lower or lower middle class Asian students. Only to black or Hispanic students. Hypocrites.

In MCPS they give preference to low income because they figured out that in that county many Asians would not fit that category. Either research shows that low income children should benefit from admissions criteria or not. I don't know why different districts are allowed to manipulate the admissions criteria however they want just to result in fewer Asians. FWIW I do think there should be preferences based on socieoeconomic status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both sides are correct on this

The folks getting in weren't upper class but there was barely any free or reduced lunch kids in the class either

The SB messed up because folks on there were clearly talking about race instead of just geographic or socioeconomic diversity

But there still are very very few actual FRMS students at TJ. Does anyone actually REALLY believe that 25% of TJHSST freshman come from a household making at or below 185% of the federal poverty limit (about $49,000 for a family of 5)? Prep companies advertised the loophole to their clients and it’s clear that the TJ admissions office knew that parents were exploiting the loophole.

It’s just laughable that so many people tote this 25% stat when it’s clearly BS.

[Anonymous]

How it is BS? You need to provide official income/tax return information for FARMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This issue is much more nuanced than simply low expectations for URMs. Imagine the great majority of Black and Hispanic kids in Fairfax County had similar (very high) socio-economic status equivalent to the average wealth of Langley, McLean, Chantilly families who are sending their kids to TJ. In that case, yes, giving URMs bonus points to get into TJ would be ridiculous.

However, the reality is that the majority of URMs are living in the lower-middle class or below poverty level. Why do you think all the "good" school districts have very few Hispanic and Black kids? Why do all the "bad" schools have so many Hispanic and Black kids? It always goes back to the inability to afford expensive housing, which leads to concentrated pockets of poverty in specific schools, which leads to bad outcomes in schools, which leads to what we have now.

Then why not tie favoritism to socio-economic class and not race?

They do through Experience Factors for underrepresented schools (which tracks with SES) and Economically Disadvantaged.

There are no favors directly given for race, though it looks that way because of how closely race tracks with SES in Northern VA.

The "underrepresented school" experience factor is a load of BS, though. There are some lower middle class kids at Longfellow. There are also some upper middle class kids in the high FARMS schools. There's no reason to give bonus points to higher income kids just because their school as a whole has a lot of FARMS kids. Those individual higher income kids are still privileged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How it is BS? You need to provide official income/tax return information for FARMS.

That rule was relaxed during the pandemic and thus during the selection of the class of 2025. Everyone technically qualifies as receiving free meals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both sides are correct on this

The folks getting in weren't upper class but there was barely any free or reduced lunch kids in the class either

The SB messed up because folks on there were clearly talking about race instead of just geographic or socioeconomic diversity

But there still are very very few actual FRMS students at TJ. Does anyone actually REALLY believe that 25% of TJHSST freshman come from a household making at or below 185% of the federal poverty limit (about $49,000 for a family of 5)? Prep companies advertised the loophole to their clients and it’s clear that the TJ admissions office knew that parents were exploiting the loophole.

It’s just laughable that so many people tote this 25% stat when it’s clearly BS.

It’s clearly more than 0.6%.

[Anonymous]

OP here. The most relevant part of the NYT article copied here:

"... I find myself thinking about other things, including how we’ve allowed ourselves to all but give up on the idea that many Black and Latino students, as well as Pacific Islander and Native American students, can compete....

I think of this kind of thing in reference to altering standards of evaluation so that Black and Latino students are represented proportionally in various institutions. These days, one is to think of this sort of thing as equity. The idea seems to be that until there is something much closer to equality — as in equal access to resources — throughout society, we must force at least the superficial justice of equity in sheer percentages.

But too often, the message being communicated to Black and Latino people is that our presence is what matters, not our performance. I am uncomfortable, for example, with the domino-effect elimination of standardized testing requirements in university admissions policies across the country."

[Anonymous]

FCPS did not mess up by allocating seats to underrepresented school. They messed up - and acted in a racist way, one might argue - when they removed the admission test. Test of aptitude. Why did they remove it? Because apparently they did not believe students of color were capable of passing it. Did they ask the affected communities if this was desirable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This issue is much more nuanced than simply low expectations for URMs. Imagine the great majority of Black and Hispanic kids in Fairfax County had similar (very high) socio-economic status equivalent to the average wealth of Langley, McLean, Chantilly families who are sending their kids to TJ. In that case, yes, giving URMs bonus points to get into TJ would be ridiculous.

However, the reality is that the majority of URMs are living in the lower-middle class or below poverty level. Why do you think all the "good" school districts have very few Hispanic and Black kids? Why do all the "bad" schools have so many Hispanic and Black kids? It always goes back to the inability to afford expensive housing, which leads to concentrated pockets of poverty in specific schools, which leads to bad outcomes in schools, which leads to what we have now.

BS.

The overwhelming success of Asian children of immigrants (who’s parents arrived here with nothing) blows your tired old Marxist/progressive argument clean out of the water.

Tired of your incessant scolding about “privilege.”