LCPS Curriculum and Instruction committee 3/10 meeting about advanced math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many of his classmates in 6th grade Algebra 1 went to TJ or AoS? Are you including them in your 90% figure?

No idea. All I can tell you is that by 8th grade 8 of them were left. They had to be bussed to the high school for their algebra 2/trig class. Obviously we are down to 2 now for the AP BC calc class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of his classmates in 6th grade Algebra 1 went to TJ or AoS? Are you including them in your 90% figure?

This is the flaw in the numbers given at the committee meeting.
AoS gives calculus in 11th grade, though some topics get covered in 10th grade. Not sure what TJ does.

So this is the issue. I’m the PP (who cited the 90% fail rate experience) my son got into AOS. 2 reasons he didn’t go:

1. They operate as a cohort. He would have had to repeat algebra 2/trig that he had already competed in 8th and received a final grade of a 98. They could not accommodate the jump to a math Analysis in 9th.
2. He plays a sport and had high chances of making varsity as a freshman (which he did) and with practices being after school the bussing situation made it too chaotic for his sport.


TJ was out of the question. Too far, not worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I kind of see where LCPs is going with the math , but as usual they are leaning towards too extreme.

I have a 10th grader who is finishing up AP BC calc. He started with Algebra 1 in 6th grade with a full class of 6th graders. He is now one of only TWO Children who have managed to not drop out over the years. A 90% fail rate is pretty bad. It is very clear that parents have pushed their kids beyond their abilities and wasted everyone’s time.

For 11th grade he’s taking multi variable calc. For this there is ONE class in the entire county offered at woodgrove and the rest of the students have to log into the online live class. Even then the county only has demand for one full classroom.

Tracking your child in Algebra 1 in 6th grade statically sets them up for failure. I only suggest this if your child is truly gifted in math. Like savant level. What LCPs and Virginia should do is require rigorous testing that doesn’t allow for a waiver.

Tracking starting with Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not just a matter of having a smart hardworking child. It’s the equivalent of expecting your child to be a D1 athlete. You have to factor in true god given gifts to make it work.

Both my son and the other student will probably be the kid who gets into Harvard or MIT.

When you say “fail rate,” do you just mean those other students didn’t continue tracking 3 years ahead? Or they failed their math classes? Because if it’s the former, you could say there was no benefit to 6th grade algebra, but that’s not the same as “failing.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I kind of see where LCPs is going with the math , but as usual they are leaning towards too extreme.

I have a 10th grader who is finishing up AP BC calc. He started with Algebra 1 in 6th grade with a full class of 6th graders. He is now one of only TWO Children who have managed to not drop out over the years. A 90% fail rate is pretty bad. It is very clear that parents have pushed their kids beyond their abilities and wasted everyone’s time.

For 11th grade he’s taking multi variable calc. For this there is ONE class in the entire county offered at woodgrove and the rest of the students have to log into the online live class. Even then the county only has demand for one full classroom.

Tracking your child in Algebra 1 in 6th grade statically sets them up for failure. I only suggest this if your child is truly gifted in math. Like savant level. What LCPs and Virginia should do is require rigorous testing that doesn’t allow for a waiver.

Tracking starting with Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not just a matter of having a smart hardworking child. It’s the equivalent of expecting your child to be a D1 athlete. You have to factor in true god given gifts to make it work.

Both my son and the other student will probably be the kid who gets into Harvard or MIT.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade is too young! May I ask why you did that? There is a difference between taking Algebra 1 in 6th v 7th, and I don’t think you should lump them together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I kind of see where LCPs is going with the math , but as usual they are leaning towards too extreme.

I have a 10th grader who is finishing up AP BC calc. He started with Algebra 1 in 6th grade with a full class of 6th graders. He is now one of only TWO Children who have managed to not drop out over the years. A 90% fail rate is pretty bad. It is very clear that parents have pushed their kids beyond their abilities and wasted everyone’s time.

For 11th grade he’s taking multi variable calc. For this there is ONE class in the entire county offered at woodgrove and the rest of the students have to log into the online live class. Even then the county only has demand for one full classroom.

Tracking your child in Algebra 1 in 6th grade statically sets them up for failure. I only suggest this if your child is truly gifted in math. Like savant level. What LCPs and Virginia should do is require rigorous testing that doesn’t allow for a waiver.

Tracking starting with Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not just a matter of having a smart hardworking child. It’s the equivalent of expecting your child to be a D1 athlete. You have to factor in true god given gifts to make it work.

Both my son and the other student will probably be the kid who gets into Harvard or MIT.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade is too young! May I ask why you did that? There is a difference between taking Algebra 1 in 6th v 7th, and I don’t think you should lump them together.

DP. But that's what all the fussing is about. LCPS significantly restricted Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Posters are very upset about having to delay until 7th grade.

[Anonymous]

Not the OP but if a student likes math and has already taken the prior coursework, Algebra 1 in 6th grade is a good fit. Also, if a student wants to accelerate in science, they will hit up against math prerequisites for courses and summer camps so math acceleration is helpful there too.

Based on SOL data, these students appear to be handling the material. In 2018-19 before COVID, roughly 80% of LCPS 8th graders taking Algebra 2 scored pass advanced and only 1% failed. Thus, while certainly not for everyone, there is a small subset for whom 6th grade Algebra I works.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous

DP. But that's what all the fussing is about. LCPS significantly restricted Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Posters are very upset about having to delay until 7th grade.

The delay is more likely to 8th grade. About half of kids in some schools were taking algebra in 7th grade. The prealgebra in 6th grade is maybe 5%.
I have heard they were recommending kids for algebra even if they were not in prealgebra in 6th grade, but I don't know the numbers.
LCPS staffer has a goal of eliminating prealgebra for 6th grade as well, and tracking in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Tracking your child in Algebra 1 in 6th grade statically sets them up for failure. I only suggest this if your child is truly gifted in math. Like savant level. What LCPs and Virginia should do is require rigorous testing that doesn’t allow for a waiver.

I don't know about waivers, but LCPS had rigorous testing, with pass levels based on correlation with student performance.
82% pass on mock SOL 8 was the requirement before. Possibly 33 questions, and they accepted 27 = 81.8%.

Now they have changed it to 82% on SOL 7 to get into prealgebra, with anyone over 90(30 of 33 questions) allowed to take a test to get into algebra.
Two Iowa tests, basic math skills grade 8 and algebra, are given.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[quote=Anonymous

DP. But that's what all the fussing is about. LCPS significantly restricted Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Posters are very upset about having to delay until 7th grade.

The delay is more likely to 8th grade. About half of kids in some schools were taking algebra in 7th grade. The prealgebra in 6th grade is maybe 5%.
I have heard they were recommending kids for algebra even if they were not in prealgebra in 6th grade, but I don't know the numbers.
LCPS staffer has a goal of eliminating prealgebra for 6th grade as well, and tracking in general.


Has there been a decline in the share of 7th graders taking Algebra 1 this year or are you anticipating that may happen next year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I kind of see where LCPs is going with the math , but as usual they are leaning towards too extreme.

I have a 10th grader who is finishing up AP BC calc. He started with Algebra 1 in 6th grade with a full class of 6th graders. He is now one of only TWO Children who have managed to not drop out over the years. A 90% fail rate is pretty bad. It is very clear that parents have pushed their kids beyond their abilities and wasted everyone’s time.

For 11th grade he’s taking multi variable calc. For this there is ONE class in the entire county offered at woodgrove and the rest of the students have to log into the online live class. Even then the county only has demand for one full classroom.

Tracking your child in Algebra 1 in 6th grade statically sets them up for failure. I only suggest this if your child is truly gifted in math. Like savant level. What LCPs and Virginia should do is require rigorous testing that doesn’t allow for a waiver.

Tracking starting with Algebra 1 in 6th grade is not just a matter of having a smart hardworking child. It’s the equivalent of expecting your child to be a D1 athlete. You have to factor in true god given gifts to make it work.

Both my son and the other student will probably be the kid who gets into Harvard or MIT.

Algebra 1 in 6th grade is too young! May I ask why you did that? There is a difference between taking Algebra 1 in 6th v 7th, and I don’t think you should lump them together.

DP. But that's what all the fussing is about. LCPS significantly restricted Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Posters are very upset about having to delay until 7th grade.

Wow. 6th is so early. Why are parents pushing for that?

[Anonymous]

Some kids do outside math programs with groups like AoPS to fill in gaps in school curriculum and enrichment. They may progress to the point where they are ahead of their grade level curriculum. In TJ's Class of 2020, nearly 30% had taken algebra 2 or higher when they were in 8th grade and more than 90% had taken geometry or higher in 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some kids do outside math programs with groups like AoPS to fill in gaps in school curriculum and enrichment. They may progress to the point where they are ahead of their grade level curriculum. In TJ's Class of 2020, nearly 30% had taken algebra 2 or higher when they were in 8th grade and more than 90% had taken geometry or higher in 8th grade.

3 grade levels ahead. What’s the value rushing so many kids so quickly? They aren’t all math geniuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some kids do outside math programs with groups like AoPS to fill in gaps in school curriculum and enrichment. They may progress to the point where they are ahead of their grade level curriculum. In TJ's Class of 2020, nearly 30% had taken algebra 2 or higher when they were in 8th grade and more than 90% had taken geometry or higher in 8th grade.

3 grade levels ahead. What’s the value rushing so many kids so quickly? They aren’t all math geniuses.

They are capable of algebra, rather than breezing thru prealgebra.
Down the road, this means they can breeze thru some repeat classes in 9th and maybe 10th grade when the other classes will be harder.

[Anonymous]

You are using 9th grade Algebra 1 as the base. US math pacing lags some other nations. It moves particularly slowly in the early years, so students taking outside courses can move ahead of grade level content fairly easily then. With 80% of LCPS 8th graders scoring pass advanced on the Algebra 2 SOL before COVID, genius or not, they appear to be comfortable with the material.

Reasons for acceleration vary. Some kids may really like math. Others may want to do national summer science research programs which have math prerequisites. Some may want to have more open course slots later in high school to take advantage of TJ’s electives. With only 2-3% of LCPS & FCPS 8th graders taking Algebra 2, it’s not a big cohort. But, for STEM-oriented kids, it can be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[quote=Anonymous

DP. But that's what all the fussing is about. LCPS significantly restricted Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Posters are very upset about having to delay until 7th grade.

The delay is more likely to 8th grade. About half of kids in some schools were taking algebra in 7th grade. The prealgebra in 6th grade is maybe 5%.
I have heard they were recommending kids for algebra even if they were not in prealgebra in 6th grade, but I don't know the numbers.
LCPS staffer has a goal of eliminating prealgebra for 6th grade as well, and tracking in general.

Has there been a decline in the share of 7th graders taking Algebra 1 this year or are you anticipating that may happen next year?

I'm anticipating it to happen next year as the numbers in prealgebra is around 5%, when before it was about 50%, though the class was not called pre-algebra then.