ADHD even if processing speed and working memory in normal range ?

[Anonymous]

And processing speed and working memory are part of Executive Function, as is emotional regulation. So they often co-exist, but PS & WM do not diagnosis ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Processing speed and working memory form no part of the diagnostic criteria for adhd. (They can be associated but do not confirm a diagnosis nor does the absent email of these in any way call the diagnosis into question.) however, the fact that the teacher didn’t indicate issues does make the diagnosis less likely since symptoms must manifest in more than just the home setting. However, young children (especially girls with inattentive adhd who are bright) may fly under the radar with teachers for a long time.

This. My kid has ASD and ADHD, combined type. He has very superior processing speed (97 percentile) and working memory (99 percentile) nevertheless he has ADHD and all his teachers agree with the diagnosis as do I. The way this manifests is that DS does very well academically and doesn’t need meds or supports.

+1

Processing speed and working memory are not concerns in our family of ADHDers.

PP with the ASD/ADHD kid again. DS also has no problems with emotional regulation so if processing speed, working memory and emotional regulation was a criteria for ADHD, he wouldn’t have ADHD. He is ADHD, combined, but mostly hyperactive not inattentive. When he was little, he literally was moving all.the.time except when hyperfocusing where he could literally sit for hours. Now that DS is older, his ADHD presents as VERY energetic, VERY engaged, VERY enthusiastic and he has excellent class participation at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Russell Barkley’s whole spiel is that emotional regulation used to be part of the diagnostic criteria for adhd dx and has since been removed from the dsm which he considers a huge error. He considers that adhd is primarily a disorder of emotional regulation. If you think about it at its core whether inattentive or hyperactive or impulsive - it is all ultimately self regulation. You can’t regulate yourself to do or not do xyz that isn’t organically ‘preferred’ or does not come easily

I agree with this 100% but that's because this is how it expresses in our family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine has fine working memory and processing speed and raging adhd

Ditto

No. Your children have a mild form of ADHD. "Raging" otherwise known as "severe" ADHD, definitely has slow processing and low working memory as symptoms.

Not so.
Adhd is a disorder of emotional regulation not of slow processing or poor working memory. In fact slow processing according to Russell Barkley is possibly a separate disorder entirely

Is ADHD a disorder of emotional regulation? Emotional regulation is something a majority of people with ADHD struggle with, but it isn't essential for diagnosis and issues like inattentiveness don't seem like issues related to emotional regulation.

What exactly is meant by "emotional regulation"? Does anxiety count, or is it only things like outbursts or expressing frustration in negative ways? Is it a question of internal regulation, meaning they rarely get upset about small things, or does it refer only to inappropriate external expression of typical emotions?

My inattentive ADHD kid looks cool as a cucumber on the surface, so teachers never know when she's losing focus or getting frustrated. She learned really early how to avoid drawing attention to herself in school. Even the psychologist who tested her said that she breezed through every test without ever showing any frustration or loss of attention, even when the scores showed otherwise, and she herself commented on how hard some of it was afterward. The tester said this is really common, especially with girls with inattentive ADHD.

She's definitely had her share of anxiety, especially as expectations increased and she had trouble meeting them no matter how hard she tried. But I'd never characterize her as having trouble regulating emotions. If anything, she has an iron grip on them, to avoid anyone trying to sympathize or be nice to her when she's upset. When she was little, she hated that more than anything. Still does, I guess, but it's less of an issue now because she can hide it better. Her dad and I know to just give her space when she's upset, and she'll be herself again in a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine has fine working memory and processing speed and raging adhd

Ditto

No. Your children have a mild form of ADHD. "Raging" otherwise known as "severe" ADHD, definitely has slow processing and low working memory as symptoms.

Not so.
Adhd is a disorder of emotional regulation not of slow processing or poor working memory. In fact slow processing according to Russell Barkley is possibly a separate disorder entirely

Is ADHD a disorder of emotional regulation? Emotional regulation is something a majority of people with ADHD struggle with, but it isn't essential for diagnosis and issues like inattentiveness don't seem like issues related to emotional regulation.

I’m confused as to what makes you or anyone think she has adhd?
If she is actively not attending then that is a type of regulation deficit yes.
If she is attending but not retaining then adhd may not be the core issue. But I am not a dr

What exactly is meant by "emotional regulation"? Does anxiety count, or is it only things like outbursts or expressing frustration in negative ways? Is it a question of internal regulation, meaning they rarely get upset about small things, or does it refer only to inappropriate external expression of typical emotions?

My inattentive ADHD kid looks cool as a cucumber on the surface, so teachers never know when she's losing focus or getting frustrated. She learned really early how to avoid drawing attention to herself in school. Even the psychologist who tested her said that she breezed through every test without ever showing any frustration or loss of attention, even when the scores showed otherwise, and she herself commented on how hard some of it was afterward. The tester said this is really common, especially with girls with inattentive ADHD.

She's definitely had her share of anxiety, especially as expectations increased and she had trouble meeting them no matter how hard she tried. But I'd never characterize her as having trouble regulating emotions. If anything, she has an iron grip on them, to avoid anyone trying to sympathize or be nice to her when she's upset. When she was little, she hated that more than anything. Still does, I guess, but it's less of an issue now because she can hide it better. Her dad and I know to just give her space when she's upset, and she'll be herself again in a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine has fine working memory and processing speed and raging adhd

Ditto

No. Your children have a mild form of ADHD. "Raging" otherwise known as "severe" ADHD, definitely has slow processing and low working memory as symptoms.

Not so.
Adhd is a disorder of emotional regulation not of slow processing or poor working memory. In fact slow processing according to Russell Barkley is possibly a separate disorder entirely

Is ADHD a disorder of emotional regulation? Emotional regulation is something a majority of people with ADHD struggle with, but it isn't essential for diagnosis and issues like inattentiveness don't seem like issues related to emotional regulation.

What are the symptoms that are at issue?

What exactly is meant by "emotional regulation"? Does anxiety count, or is it only things like outbursts or expressing frustration in negative ways? Is it a question of internal regulation, meaning they rarely get upset about small things, or does it refer only to inappropriate external expression of typical emotions?

My inattentive ADHD kid looks cool as a cucumber on the surface, so teachers never know when she's losing focus or getting frustrated. She learned really early how to avoid drawing attention to herself in school. Even the psychologist who tested her said that she breezed through every test without ever showing any frustration or loss of attention, even when the scores showed otherwise, and she herself commented on how hard some of it was afterward. The tester said this is really common, especially with girls with inattentive ADHD.

She's definitely had her share of anxiety, especially as expectations increased and she had trouble meeting them no matter how hard she tried. But I'd never characterize her as having trouble regulating emotions. If anything, she has an iron grip on them, to avoid anyone trying to sympathize or be nice to her when she's upset. When she was little, she hated that more than anything. Still does, I guess, but it's less of an issue now because she can hide it better. Her dad and I know to just give her space when she's upset, and she'll be herself again in a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine has fine working memory and processing speed and raging adhd

Ditto

No. Your children have a mild form of ADHD. "Raging" otherwise known as "severe" ADHD, definitely has slow processing and low working memory as symptoms.

Not so.
Adhd is a disorder of emotional regulation not of slow processing or poor working memory. In fact slow processing according to Russell Barkley is possibly a separate disorder entirely

Is ADHD a disorder of emotional regulation? Emotional regulation is something a majority of people with ADHD struggle with, but it isn't essential for diagnosis and issues like inattentiveness don't seem like issues related to emotional regulation.

I’m confused as to what makes you or anyone think she has adhd?
If she is actively not attending then that is a type of regulation deficit yes.
If she is attending but not retaining then adhd may not be the core issue. But I am not a dr

What exactly is meant by "emotional regulation"? Does anxiety count, or is it only things like outbursts or expressing frustration in negative ways? Is it a question of internal regulation, meaning they rarely get upset about small things, or does it refer only to inappropriate external expression of typical emotions?

My inattentive ADHD kid looks cool as a cucumber on the surface, so teachers never know when she's losing focus or getting frustrated. She learned really early how to avoid drawing attention to herself in school. Even the psychologist who tested her said that she breezed through every test without ever showing any frustration or loss of attention, even when the scores showed otherwise, and she herself commented on how hard some of it was afterward. The tester said this is really common, especially with girls with inattentive ADHD.

She's definitely had her share of anxiety, especially as expectations increased and she had trouble meeting them no matter how hard she tried. But I'd never characterize her as having trouble regulating emotions. If anything, she has an iron grip on them, to avoid anyone trying to sympathize or be nice to her when she's upset. When she was little, she hated that more than anything. Still does, I guess, but it's less of an issue now because she can hide it better. Her dad and I know to just give her space when she's upset, and she'll be herself again in a bit.

I got lost in the thread here, but I think the bolded is replying to me here? I'm the PP who asked for a definition of "emotional regulation."

Yes, she's frequently inattentive at school and home, can't follow multi-step directions, consistently has trouble finishing or turning in schoolwork, does well on complex assignments but makes careless mistakes on easy tasks, all the usual things. Based on her test scores for the WISC-V, WIAT-4, TOVA, and a bunch of other tests for executive function and working memory, she was diagnosed as 2e: gifted with inattentive ADHD. The tester said it seemed to be a classic pattern of a bright kid being able to compensate until demands and home and school started increasing with age.

But the term "emotional regulation" used in this thread as an important element for diagnosing ADHD was throwing me off, because I couldn't figure out how it might fit my kid, whose diagnosis seemed pretty spot-on. A good definition for the term might help me understand a bit better. The bolded PP's term "regulation deficit" made more sense to me.

[Anonymous]

Actually, people are saying that issues with emotional regulation is NOT a diagnostic criteria for ADHD. In other words kids without issues with emotional regulation can be diagnosed with ADHD just like kids with processing speed and working memory in the normal range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine has fine working memory and processing speed and raging adhd

Ditto

No. Your children have a mild form of ADHD. "Raging" otherwise known as "severe" ADHD, definitely has slow processing and low working memory as symptoms.

Not so.
Adhd is a disorder of emotional regulation not of slow processing or poor working memory. In fact slow processing according to Russell Barkley is possibly a separate disorder entirely

Is ADHD a disorder of emotional regulation? Emotional regulation is something a majority of people with ADHD struggle with, but it isn't essential for diagnosis and issues like inattentiveness don't seem like issues related to emotional regulation.

I’m confused as to what makes you or anyone think she has adhd?
If she is actively not attending then that is a type of regulation deficit yes.
If she is attending but not retaining then adhd may not be the core issue. But I am not a dr

What exactly is meant by "emotional regulation"? Does anxiety count, or is it only things like outbursts or expressing frustration in negative ways? Is it a question of internal regulation, meaning they rarely get upset about small things, or does it refer only to inappropriate external expression of typical emotions?

My inattentive ADHD kid looks cool as a cucumber on the surface, so teachers never know when she's losing focus or getting frustrated. She learned really early how to avoid drawing attention to herself in school. Even the psychologist who tested her said that she breezed through every test without ever showing any frustration or loss of attention, even when the scores showed otherwise, and she herself commented on how hard some of it was afterward. The tester said this is really common, especially with girls with inattentive ADHD.

She's definitely had her share of anxiety, especially as expectations increased and she had trouble meeting them no matter how hard she tried. But I'd never characterize her as having trouble regulating emotions. If anything, she has an iron grip on them, to avoid anyone trying to sympathize or be nice to her when she's upset. When she was little, she hated that more than anything. Still does, I guess, but it's less of an issue now because she can hide it better. Her dad and I know to just give her space when she's upset, and she'll be herself again in a bit.

I got lost in the thread here, but I think the bolded is replying to me here? I'm the PP who asked for a definition of "emotional regulation."

Yes, she's frequently inattentive at school and home, can't follow multi-step directions, consistently has trouble finishing or turning in schoolwork, does well on complex assignments but makes careless mistakes on easy tasks, all the usual things. Based on her test scores for the WISC-V, WIAT-4, TOVA, and a bunch of other tests for executive function and working memory, she was diagnosed as 2e: gifted with inattentive ADHD. The tester said it seemed to be a classic pattern of a bright kid being able to compensate until demands and home and school started increasing with age.

But the term "emotional regulation" used in this thread as an important element for diagnosing ADHD was throwing me off, because I couldn't figure out how it might fit my kid, whose diagnosis seemed pretty spot-on. A good definition for the term might help me understand a bit better. The bolded PP's term "regulation deficit" made more sense to me.

Problems with finishing and turning in homework is a problem witn emotional regulation imo
She is doing homework and she gets bored or distracted. Where a nt kid would find the internal motivation to overcome that impulse to stop, she can’t use that same technique to regulate and re attend. What happens when you say ‘hey finish your homework and turn it in’? These things are not happening in an emotion vaccuum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our questionnaires and overall impression of DD are that she has inattentive ADHD. Since she was little, she is distracted, cannot execute a multi step plan, is disorganized, etc. But her Neuropsych came back with average working memory and processing speed. The doc said that these scores are usually lower in ADHD. Has anyone ever experienced this? Teacher questionnaires also not positive.

What you describe is pretty classic ADHD. Not sure why you are focusing on her avg processing speed and working memory. These are not used to diagnose ADHD and neither is deficits in emotional regulation. The fact that she is distracted, disorganized and has issues following multi step directions is what got your DD an inattentive ADHD diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our questionnaires and overall impression of DD are that she has inattentive ADHD. Since she was little, she is distracted, cannot execute a multi step plan, is disorganized, etc. But her Neuropsych came back with average working memory and processing speed. The doc said that these scores are usually lower in ADHD. Has anyone ever experienced this? Teacher questionnaires also not positive.

What you describe is pretty classic ADHD. Not sure why you are focusing on her avg processing speed and working memory. These are not used to diagnose ADHD and neither is deficits in emotional regulation. The fact that she is distracted, disorganized and has issues following multi step directions is what got your DD an inattentive ADHD diagnosis.

I was focused on it because the Neuropsych pointed to the normal scores and said: these are usually lower in kids with ADHD.

After second day of testing, the Neuropsych said that it isn’t ADHD. Her report will have the details. I am pretty stunned and feel like my dd is basically doomed. It’s like I am my DH are the only ones who see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our questionnaires and overall impression of DD are that she has inattentive ADHD. Since she was little, she is distracted, cannot execute a multi step plan, is disorganized, etc. But her Neuropsych came back with average working memory and processing speed. The doc said that these scores are usually lower in ADHD. Has anyone ever experienced this? Teacher questionnaires also not positive.

What you describe is pretty classic ADHD. Not sure why you are focusing on her avg processing speed and working memory. These are not used to diagnose ADHD and neither is deficits in emotional regulation. The fact that she is distracted, disorganized and has issues following multi step directions is what got your DD an inattentive ADHD diagnosis.

I was focused on it because the Neuropsych pointed to the normal scores and said: these are usually lower in kids with ADHD.

After second day of testing, the Neuropsych said that it isn’t ADHD. Her report will have the details. I am pretty stunned and feel like my dd is basically doomed. It’s like I am my DH are the only ones who see it.

So what did they say it is if not ADHD? Anxiety? ASD? Both? It is strange that your neuropsych tells you what it isn’t before the testing is done but won’t tell you the diagnosis until the report is written. It sounds like your DD has executive functioning deficits. A definitive diagnosis doesn’t matter that much unless you want to medicate. Everyone treats the symptoms whether or not there is a diagnosis anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine has fine working memory and processing speed and raging adhd

Ditto

No. Your children have a mild form of ADHD. "Raging" otherwise known as "severe" ADHD, definitely has slow processing and low working memory as symptoms.

Not so.
Adhd is a disorder of emotional regulation not of slow processing or poor working memory. In fact slow processing according to Russell Barkley is possibly a separate disorder entirely

Is ADHD a disorder of emotional regulation? Emotional regulation is something a majority of people with ADHD struggle with, but it isn't essential for diagnosis and issues like inattentiveness don't seem like issues related to emotional regulation.

I’m confused as to what makes you or anyone think she has adhd?
If she is actively not attending then that is a type of regulation deficit yes.
If she is attending but not retaining then adhd may not be the core issue. But I am not a dr

What exactly is meant by "emotional regulation"? Does anxiety count, or is it only things like outbursts or expressing frustration in negative ways? Is it a question of internal regulation, meaning they rarely get upset about small things, or does it refer only to inappropriate external expression of typical emotions?

My inattentive ADHD kid looks cool as a cucumber on the surface, so teachers never know when she's losing focus or getting frustrated. She learned really early how to avoid drawing attention to herself in school. Even the psychologist who tested her said that she breezed through every test without ever showing any frustration or loss of attention, even when the scores showed otherwise, and she herself commented on how hard some of it was afterward. The tester said this is really common, especially with girls with inattentive ADHD.

She's definitely had her share of anxiety, especially as expectations increased and she had trouble meeting them no matter how hard she tried. But I'd never characterize her as having trouble regulating emotions. If anything, she has an iron grip on them, to avoid anyone trying to sympathize or be nice to her when she's upset. When she was little, she hated that more than anything. Still does, I guess, but it's less of an issue now because she can hide it better. Her dad and I know to just give her space when she's upset, and she'll be herself again in a bit.

I got lost in the thread here, but I think the bolded is replying to me here? I'm the PP who asked for a definition of "emotional regulation."

Yes, she's frequently inattentive at school and home, can't follow multi-step directions, consistently has trouble finishing or turning in schoolwork, does well on complex assignments but makes careless mistakes on easy tasks, all the usual things. Based on her test scores for the WISC-V, WIAT-4, TOVA, and a bunch of other tests for executive function and working memory, she was diagnosed as 2e: gifted with inattentive ADHD. The tester said it seemed to be a classic pattern of a bright kid being able to compensate until demands and home and school started increasing with age.

But the term "emotional regulation" used in this thread as an important element for diagnosing ADHD was throwing me off, because I couldn't figure out how it might fit my kid, whose diagnosis seemed pretty spot-on. A good definition for the term might help me understand a bit better. The bolded PP's term "regulation deficit" made more sense to me.

Problems with finishing and turning in homework is a problem witn emotional regulation imo
She is doing homework and she gets bored or distracted. Where a nt kid would find the internal motivation to overcome that impulse to stop, she can’t use that same technique to regulate and re attend. What happens when you say ‘hey finish your homework and turn it in’? These things are not happening in an emotion vaccuum

A disorder of regulation, yes, but not primarily a disorder of emotional regulation although emotional regulation may be one component. Your example above makes ADHD sound like a conduct disorder and it is not, it is a difference in brain chemical and structure. So as an adult with ADHD, there are some parts of my brain I can hack in order to behave more like a typical person (I have very structured routines that keep me from losing my keys for example). There are other things I just can't change about how my brain works. You could offer me a million dollars or lock me in a dungeon, but I will never make my brain good at editing, and I have a Ph.D. in humanities from an elite university so I got plenty of practice. I think seeing ADHD as primarily an issue of emotional regulation can lead to the attitudes many of us who are now adults faced where we were told we were lazy or not trying hard enough rather than getting meaningful intervention.